Wednesday, July 10, 2013

What's Up? - Topics #11; Entries from 8/13 - 1/14

 
 
- Angel -
- Angel -
 
 Anything can be posted here! We'll talk about Politics, Sports (figure skating, tennis, basketball, & football), TV, and Movies (Batman & X-Men)! Posts framed w/ "***" are comments from others! - - (Closed - 100 posts)




 - Roberta Flack's ending theme of "Sudden Impact;"  -  

 - Athlete's performance of "Chances" (Vincent & The Doctor) -

 - Arch Angel - "X-Men: Last Stand" -

 - Daredevil - Bring Me To Life (movie version) -

 - Madonna's, "Live To Tell" - - - - (w/ Lyrics) -


 - This Used To Be My Playground - (w/ Lyric) -

100 comments:

  1. ***The $1M+ settlement reached by the Martins and Homeowners Assoc will prob not lead to the them filing a civil suit against George since they've already gotten money from the community and it's pretty safe to say George has none to collect from. I feel so bad for the parent's loss and I hope the money they got helps them to move on in a positive way.
    ---

    Sharpton / Jackson, Civil Rights Leaders or Racist - Clearly they're racists. But it's more than just that, they also make their living from stoking racial tension. That's probably the majority of their motivation.***

    Bill O"Reilly "loses it" on his show again on FNN, "The O'Reilly Factor!" He gets himself all worked up, blaming the race problem on illegitimate births, the "hip-hop" culture, and of course drugs and other criminal behavior! He takes no responsibility on himself, his ancestors, lack of jobs, and poverty of course which is fine, but I won't be lectured by this idiot! He's the last one I would pay attention to when it comes to race and the ridiculous efforts to criminalize just breathing as a reason to incarcerate and put Black men at a destinque disadvantage in this society! Screw him and the elephant he rides in on! Lucky for him he can find some Black guys who'll agree with everything he says like his good buddy Juan Williams, Lee Elder, and that ex-Rep moron from FLA, Allen West! They do such a deservice to their own people, but expected if they want exposure on that sick network! Kind of hypocritical for them and others to lambaste Jackson and Sharpton when they're doing the exact same thing, but in reverse!

    ***Boycotts don`t work. Over 50 yrs of US boycotts of Cuba and they seem to be doing fine.
    ---

    Actually, on rare occasion boycotts can be effective. Prob the most notable boycott that was successful was the Mont., Ala. public transit boycott led by a young Martin Luther King, Jr. But that was a isolated effort, directed at a small localized market, w/ a unified, tightly controlled constituency that had almost universal support from a broader audience that was in total support of a highly altruistic cause. ...The Zimmerman/Martin case unfortunately lacks most of those criteria. In particular, the general pop. is largely divided on the cause. And there is no real leader who is capable of unifying a nat'l constituency in support of this cause to the degree that MLK was able to accomplish from a small parish church in Montgomery; as justified as the Martin cause may be.***

    In my day, back in the late 70's, the big boycott that worked was against Fla oranges when Anita Bryant decided she was going to go to war against gay people! Bars weren't buying OJ and no one I knew asked for screwdrivers! It hurt them and they allowed her contract to lapse in '79 as a spokeswoman for OJ! My mom figured Bryant got her panties in a bunch b/c one of her sons may have been propositioned by a gay person! It never made any sense; esp. at the time! She was truly stuck in the 50's and paid dearly for her intransigence and hate! The thing was she was just religious, but in the end proved to be a hypocrite divorcing her 1st husband in '80! She was lampooned in comedy sketches, openly dismissed by celebrities like Bette Midler, Elton John, and Barbra Steisand and her career never recovered! Wiki says she remarried in '90 which may have helped her 4 kids, but it had to be terribly humiliating to be assoc. with such a woman! A movie starring Uma Thurman is in the works and will chrono that era!

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  2. ***Phil Mickelson won the British Open yesterday! "Great job Phil!"***

    I'm no fan, but congratulations are in order! I get so tired of Tiger Woods being ensconced as the prohibitive favorite again and again while not even being in the running for the Championship in the end! I've always found both kind of phony, but at least Phil appears to have a heart, a nice family, and some kind of integrity unlike that other loser who perpetrated a fraud on the world for so many years!
    ---

    ***The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time - ...Yes, but Williams plays in a far more competitive and demanding era.***

    Same 'ol, same 'ol I see! When Williams hits 18 majors and 100 titles, call me! Until then, she's barely in the top 5! If you want to go with bench pressing weights, fine, she's the Queen! Other than that, this is a wasted conversation! It wasn't very smart to wait until 30+ to decide "I want to be the GOAT!" Too many years were wasted with injury, illness, & outside interests! This era has quite a few tough players, but the mental side of the game isn't evident! Ball bashing is not tennis no matter what people say which is why I can't give her more credit for her accomplishments! - The Top 4 lived and breathed tennis with the exception of Margaret Smith Court who took time off to have children and she still accomplished more than most! Evert is the Queen of clay and owns the French Open while Williams just acquired her 2nd title after 10 years! Martina owns Wimbledon and no one's close to her 9 singles titles! Graf was an all court player who won multiple titles on all surfaces so she'll always be ahead of Williams as well! It's hard to give Steffi full credit since Seles was stabbed and would have stopped her from reaching 22 majors! - Only 2 of the top 5 never had extended time away from tennis and owned their era with well over 100 titles each along with 18 majors! That can't be achieved by Williams; isn't enough time so top 5 is the best I can do:

    1) Martina Navratilova - 18 single majors (59 in total), 167 singles titles, 177 doubles
    2) Steffi Graf - 22 Majors, 107 titles in total, Olympic Gold, Calender year Grand Slam
    3) Margaret Court - 24 majors (62 in total), Calender year GS, 'GOAT' of Amateur era
    4) Chris Evert - 18 single majors, 7 French Opens, 6 US Opens, 157 singles titles
    5) Serena Williams - 16 majors, 4 Olympic medals (1 in singles), still on tour

    ***I don't think anyone can look beyond your Top 4 right now. I've got them in a different order, but you can make an argument for each and everyone of them. Serena hasn't done enough yet to be in included in that company. She may bridge the gap, but she's not there now.***

    Thanks! I've caught a lot of hell with my choices and due to being into tennis since '71, these are my choices and why! I don't have a lot of respect for today's play with mindless bashing of the ball! It's hard to watch at times! If not for players like Federer, Gasquet, and a few others, I might have stopped watching altogether! On the ladies' side, it was Hingis that kept my interest after Navratilova retired! My faves today due to a lack of choice are Nole and Aggie Radwanska for obvious reasons! The men's GOAT is Federer with no question about it of course! He's rewritten the record books with numbers that won't be matched in our lifetime! I feel the same about Navratilova since she owns so many titles and majors in particular! I've had a real problem with Serena due to her outside interests and didn't really try to acquire numbers truly representative of her ability! True enough she's been ill and injured, but that wasn't the only reason she's still lagging behind the other greats! She really waited too long to get serious!

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  3. ***The Best In the Best of 5 - who are the toughest?

    Borg: 26-6 (.813)

    Johan Kriek: 17-4 (.810)

    Dan Goldie: 8-2 (.800)

    laver: 18-5 (.783)

    wayne arthurs: 10-3 (.769)

    Nicolas escude: 10-3 (.769)

    Daniel vacek: 10-3 (.769)***

    BORG without a doubt! With the level of competition he had to deal with, playing with a wood racket and strings tight as a pane of glass, it was a wonder he never was upset early; esp. at Wimbledon where all the top players were knocked off at one time or another before the semi's and final! He was a baseliner that actually won 5 straight, playing in 6 straight Wimbledon finals! It was unheard of back then in the 70's! He also beat his major rival each time; Connors in 2 semi's and 2 finals! That's common place now with the grass so manicured and even, you still rarely have upsets of even other baseliners like Nadal and Djokovic; esp. with the extended seedings of 32 players! You have to enhance his greatness because he only skipped the French Open once in '77, winning the FO and Wimbledon back to back 3 times in a row! No one will do that again in our lifetime! If I remember correctly, he also took the OLD World Triple of the Italian Open, FO, & Wimbledon in '78! All this with a wood racket, no fancy and helpful strings, with everyone gunning for him!

    ***Well, I would say Borg is who first popped into my mind, but I remember Kriek and his tenacity in a match. He just could not be placed on the same level with Bjorn. Of the current crop, Novak and Rafa seem to have the best records (although I don't profess to know them) in big events. Rafa lost in 5 sets to Nole in the AO in '12, but beat him in 5 at this year's FO semi. ...All in all, the single most formidable player I can think of over 5 sets was Borg. He was a freak of nature and icy cool "in the moment." Nole seems to relish the 5th set and Nadal has shown himself as capable. I still give the nod to Borg.

    ***Borg has a great 5 set record and his matches are the stuff of myth, esp. the "you-know-what" match, and also the semi-final against Connors in 1981.***

    If I remember correctly an amazing "you know what" for Borg was announced by Bud Collins! In his '77, 5 set final against Connors, Borg returned all but 2 of Jimmy's serves and had only 5 unforced errors on his forehand! That was with a wood racket and bad bounces! That's truly amazing back then when you see more UFE's than winners today! lol!

    ***Serena has the very best tennis record of modern times, which was amassed from the greatest level of competition and difficulties (propensity for injuries, etc.,) the sport has ever seen (1997-2013). Her serve alone makes her formidable. ...***

    Maybe valid points, but you yourself have the caveat that shakes up your argument; "IF" her serve and "IF" she's healthy she's the most formidable in the history of the game! The problem is, if she loses those weapons, she's vulnerable to players outside of the top 20 or 30! That didn't happen to past champions and it has nothing to do with their ability! She just goes "off the boil" for no reason, sometimes within 2 points of winning only to drop a set and a match to improbable players; case in point the FO last season! I've never heard of that woman before! Anything else? I think her major problem is technique! If she's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!

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  4. ***The royal baby! - It seems much of the world has gone gaga over the birth of Kate and William's baby. Finally it arrived and its a boy. That's nice but what's the big deal?***

    ...esp. us here in the States! I can understand Britain losing their minds, but why do we also lose our shit over this birth? It doesn't make a lot of sense even though I do like William and Kate! I even like Camilla, but the rest of the Royals can "kick rocks!" So pretentious and full of themselves! Elizabeth was a horrible mother and should take responsiility for her own 3 kids being such d-bags, divorcing their first mates with impunity!

    ***Do we bailout Detroit? - A Fed. Court already said they have jurisdiction, meaning the State Constitutional Amendment is meaningless, so those pensions probably aren't getting special treatment unless the politicians try to make a deal.***

    I wouldn't mind if they bailed them out, but concessions have to be made! The local graft, union over-compensation need to be looked at and fixed! They did this to themselves and we can't totally take on their burden, but when it comes to local services, the Fed needs to reach out and give them a helping hand! I still remember Ford turning down a bailout to NY over 40 years ago for a while! You can't just shut the whole state down even though local Reps don't seem to care about it! It's like they're going out of their way to punish these people!
    ====

    Donny Deutsche Hosted Piers Morgan last night - Topic: Sex, Scandals, & Politics - With all the scandals out there with the mayor of San Diego, Gov. of VA, and Anthony Weiner running for mayor in NY, they had to get around to sex addiction! Donny gets a call from Monica Lewinsky who at 40 is still looking for a job! Of course there's this hypocrisy in our country where the woman winds up being more damaged than the guy who she has a relationship! For women like Monica, it's like, "cry me a freakin' river!" If she hadn't blabbed to that horrible woman, Linda Tripp, she would have had a nice life! From what I understand Tripp has had plastic surgery, but even looking in Europe, no one will hire her! I wonder why? I love how it's never the woman's fault since she's overwhelmed by the man's power, wealth, and celebrity! "Bitch, just say no!" Doesn't that ever occur to these women? Star Jones was able to say with some honesty that some women's ethics aren't where they should be!

    ***Tripp is odious. I always felt sorry for Monica who made a mistake and paid a terrible price for it. The jokes about her that were flying around were incredibly mean spirited and dehumanizing. Clinton is now a respected ex-President, but she will never escape the infamy of what happened.***

    "Odious" is the perfect name to characterize Tripp! She's more disgusting than any act perpetrated by Clinton just by using her friendship to tape a conversation and got Monica to save the "Gap Dress!" She went out of her way to inform the other odious character in this drama, the special prosecutor, Kenneth Star! His reputation wasn't the same after all was said and done, but he moved on! There was a huge conflict of interest and he regreted even taking the case! The report produced should have been used for toilet paper! Well over $40 Million dollars was wasted and lives trashed just to prove Clinton lied about an extra-marital affair! So much for fiscal responsibility on the Reps part! They suffered worse losses politically after Larry Flynt got into the act bringing down the next Speaker Of The House, Rep. Livingston and exposing the other hypocrites like Barr & Hyde who were cheating with interns while they were married as well!

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  5. ***Battle of the Sexes: Serena v Andy Murray - If it takes place, the match format will be interesting.***

    Hard to believe this is still an issue or "non-issue!" I'm sorry, but the top woman isn't going to beat a male college player! The power and touch that men possess is too much for them; sorry! Martina Navratilova played an exhibition against Jimmy Connors quite a few years ago in Vegas, and it probably took something out of him just to keep her in the match for a 7-5 set score; IIRC! Check You-Tube; that's where I saw it! He gave her half the doubles area as well and she still couldn't beat the old man! She had some great points and it was entertaining, but it's just not happening; even with Amazons like Serena and Sharapova! They aren't going to beat any good male tennis player; even an amateur from college!

    ***If it happens, I don't think Murray or Serena are looking to do anything beyond providing entertainment, and helping a charity. I think of it as being like the men and women who participated in the Hit for Haiti a couple of years ago.***

    The problem is, when both Venus and Serena's egos were too big that they actually believed their own BS, we got to see it happen! We all remember a male player took up their challenge over 10+ years ago and blitzed them both! He was ranked 100, came out hungover and unshaven, smoking a cigarette, and still annihilated them 2 and 1 respectively! They were lucky it wasn't televised!

    ***Novak's Career Masters Slam - If he wins Cinci this year, Novak will have won all the current Masters Series titles. It'd be quite a feat. If he does it, how would you rate it? As a statistical curio, or an indicator of greatness?***

    Well I hope he doesn't kill himself trying to win Cinn.! Is it worth injuring or tiring himself out before the USO? I think not! He has plenty of time to add that tourney to his resume! Majors are a lot more important and he's quite aware of that; thank GAWD!

    ***I agree with Fiero that Nole shouldn't pump too much gas into Cinci - he'll need a full tank at Flushing Meadows. This is why the MS career Slam, great though it certainly is, is always going to be more a curiosity than any big indicator of greatness. You're already great if you achieve this. Achieving this doesn't necessarily confer greatness on a man.

    The MS tourneys are warm-ups, for the main part. Roger skips Monte Carlo, and now and again the late season MS events are money-earners, but not as prestigious as they could be. It's kind of like, you visit Paris so you better get a photo of the Eiffel Tower. But if you don't get it, it's not going to kill you.***

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  6. I was a huge fan of the New England Patriots until "Spy-Gate" was disclosed! Funny that it seems they needed that edge to get over the hump! They've had great seasons, making 2 SuperBowls, but they haven't won anything since it was uncovered; they cheat! I still enjoy watching them, but don't shed many tears if they go down in the playoffs! Now Karma has bitten them on the arse once again with the loss of all their wide receivers, including one to murder charges! If they had kept Welker, their season might have been saved, now they're in serious trouble; maybe not even make the playoffs! We'll see!

    ***They haven't had a defense since before 'spygate,' and it is widely established that the behavior was and had been commonplace throughout the league.
    ---

    Can we, Chgo. Bears finally beat GB w/ the all the changes? - I like what you guys did at RB. I guess the question is, will it matter for 2 reasons. 1. The Oline could not block for your other RBs so what has changed? 2, McCarthy will move away from the run game even if it is doing great. My personal thoughts is, if GB can/will run the offense they'll be scary.***

    We can only hope! I like Cutler, but he's not as elite as Rodgers; probably never will be, but they always have a chance if GB self-destructs like they did a couple years ago with 18 penalties and a defense that pushed Rodgers into QB errors! The line will be a determinant and we all know this already! We just have to be honest to what's going on out there on the field!
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    ***Hingis Returns To Singles In Fall Hoping To Halt Serena's Dominance - Davenport says that the Swiss’ decision to play 5 WTA doubles tournaments this summer — at least 2 with Daniela Hantuchova, including the U.S. Open — is "just a way to get her feet wet" before coming back in singles again. It would be the 32-year-old Hingis' 2nd comeback in singles. Another Tennis Channel analyst, Rennae Staubbs, said much the same on the NCR tennis radio podcast.***

    Marriage and having a kid usually spell the end! There are only a few instances where it wasn't a death sentence to their careers; Goolagong by winning Wimbldeon in '80 and Clijster taking a couple USO's are the only ones to come to mind at the top of the women's game!

    ***Yeah, but I can't see her contending for singles titles without a serve. Sure Errani does well with what she has, but the serve keeps her from the big titles.***

    Aggie Radwanska is the soft-ball successor to Hingis and she's done ok for herself! I think the WTA is a mess and Hingis can get back into the top 10 w/o much effort even at 32 y.o.! Her mind has always been her greatest strength!

    ***She hasn't played on the tour in over 5 years, and no matter how mentally tough you were, it's a difficult task, esp. at 32. There is a difference between playing the Legend events at Slams, WTT and the actual WTA.***

    I wouldn't bet against Hingis making the top 30! The women's game isn't that tough to crack! Serena was allowed to come and go with impunity and still reigns as #1 after all this time! That's not saying much for their games collectively!

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  7. ***My son just moved from Austin to Chicago and it saddens me. No more attending UT home games with him, Northwestern does not really have a football team. No more great TexMex food, and just the great atmosphere and vibe of Austin, which IMO is the best city in the US.***

    Perot's people needed a Tandem expert so I went down to Austin for 5 horrible months! It was only March, but it was already too hot and humid! Leaving my office as late as 10 pm, it was still an inferno out! After the Bush Governorship, allowing businesses carte blanche to polute the air and water, even I couldn't take it and left after only 5 months! I had to stop playing tennis it was so bad in July! They paid me very well, but it was even worse than my "then" home in California! I was thinking of saving a kid or 2 by adopting them to get them out of that hell hole, but that all fell through as well! Texas is a mess in so many ways!

    ***The City Noise - St. Louis City is noisy yeah, but I live about 20 minutes away in the woods.***

    Major cities tend to be noisy, but some are more so due to constant need for emergency services like ambulances, fire trucks, and the like! I lived behind the Bay Bridge in SF back in '97 and I had to close my balcony and bedroom windows due to constand traffic and vibrative noises from the bridge!

    ***Is There Something Special About Missouri? It's mentioned a lot. Is there a reason for that?***

    Believe me, there's nothing special about Missouri! It was reported years ago as a hub for drug trafficking and gang activity, but my problem is with their conservative politics! I lived in Columbia for over a year and even though it was a college town, I never felt comfortable being in the city, much less the state!

    ***I agree with the Conservative politics and i lived here my whole life! - And being the meth capital of the country too. - Hahaha very funny. It's only funny because its true...
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    Why do women insist on staying with cheaters? - Looking at it strictly from the perspective of a non-cheating, non-abusive male I am not certain there's any single simplistic answer to the question. ...***

    Outstanding! Every case is different, even if some of the dynamics may be the same! I do have the same response to women who finally shoot the guy in self defense! The reason a lot of them go to jail is they do have a choice in the end because abuse doesn't come along all at once! It may have been going on for years and all too often men get away with it! It's hard to relate having 2 fathers, both who provided and treated us well!

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  8. ***The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time - But Serena is the LeBron of tennis. She's physically more dominant than every other player in the history of the sport. You can safely say for both Williams and James that no one has seen an athlete in their respective sport with that kind of combination of athleticism, size and sheer power.
    ---

    Would Serena Williams beat Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova, and Chris Evert?

    Yes
    79.8%
    No
    20.2%***

    ...If Serena's not on her game, she doesn't have much to fall back on but her heart and we all have seen that fail her at crucial times; esp. of late losing at the AO and Wimbledon for no real good reason!

    ***So by their reckoning, is JW Tsonga a greater player than Rod Laver?***

    That must be where they're going in their thinking! lol! All players of today would slay stars of the past! If only they had a chance to see these players in their prime; the concentration, technique, & strategy it took to win with wood, with basic strings, and pot-holed grasscourts!

    ***True and the players could only play who was in front of them with the courts and equipment provided at the time. If a top player from yesteryear was placed in the modern era then I'm sure they would adapt accordingly in most cases. Also whilst Serena may well be physically as strong, if not more powerful than any woman to pick up a racquet - I'm not convinced she was a better athlete than a prime Steffi Graf.
    ---

    Comparing Roger and Serena's accomplishments - BTW, did you know that Serena is also just the 3rd woman to have a career Grand Slam in singles and doubles (she joins Margaret Court and Martina Navratilova). You really can't compare women's tennis to men's tennis....***

    Tell me about it! As much as I respect and love Martina Navratilova, only Chris Evert and Hana Mandlikova challenged her seriously! During Sampras' reign at #1, you could have 12 other players with majors including Becker, Rafter, Edberg, Agassi, Chang, Courier, Lendl, Stich, McEnroe, Connors, Kuerten, and others! Martina had rivals early on from the past, but on the decline like King, Court, Wade, & Goologong! Things didn't start to get tough for her until Graf and Seles came around late in her career and even then she represented herself well! Her last major runs were in '91 USO taking out Maleeva, Sanchex-Vicario, and Graf before losing to Seles and of course '94 Wimbledon succumbing to Martinez in the finals; respectively!
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    I'm no huge fan of Mickelson's, but I was happy enough for him! I really dislike Woods, even before the scandal several years ago! I always thought he was full of himself, the most disengenuous out there, and resented the experts anointing him with Gawd-like hype and more! I don't think he's going to overtake Jack at 18 majors even though age isn't really a factor when it comes to golf! Mickelson's won most of his majors after 39; if not all! He's really come into his own of late; regardless of his USO failures! He's already made the Hall Of Fame and doesn't need to do anything else with 5 majors; 3 Masters, 1 PGA, & now this British Open!

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  9. GOP just don't seem to realize, no one's listening to them anymore! They promised to attack the job problem and haven't passed 1 job's bill! Same ol' BS with typical obstructionism going on! It has been one phony scandal after another to try and make things look worse than they really are! They're so FOS and the country can see it! The stock market is in record territory with positive job growth after losing 700,000 a month in the waning months of the Bush term! Over 7 million jobs have been created in the private sector with no help from them! Boehner ought to get some balls somewhere and stand up to the wacky right and present a decent job's bill ASAP! A million people could be put to work tomorrow to deal with crumbling bridges, roads, and infrastructure! We all know it and I hope those arse-hole pay for it in the next election cycle! They're alienating women, Blacks, Latinos, Gays, and any smart person that can see what they're doing!

    ***I don't look at the self destruction of the GOP party as inevitable or a good thing. The last thing America needs is a 1 party political system. I'm hoping for an renaissance of the GOP where they put aside all hatred for Dems and liberalism and the politics of obstructionism and work for the betterment of all Americans. I don't see it coming anytime in the immediate future, but one can hope.***

    Agreed! As much a liberal and progressive we are here in my household, I don't want them totally in charge! Abuses and a lack of accountability occur when that happens! All you have to do is look at the southern states running over their constituients, ignoring their wishes, and legislating as if they're in agreement to limited voting registrations, abortions, and gay rights! The GOP has been out of control since before Obama took over, but they've become more intransigent trying to avoid opposition within their ranks, practically endorsing a lack of compromise; a dirty word!

    ***The law here in Chgo. and yes we have ma and pa shops that abide by it. The Chicago way where we care about people even though all racial groups tend to stick together in their own neighborhoods. Chgo is a expensive city if you've never lived here.***

    I just moved back from Cal. after 11+ years in the Golden State! It's way cheaper here, but even so, if it is high, you get what you pay for! The streets, bridges, and infrastructure is in tip top shape unlike some of these other places where things are crumbling! I was no fan of Daley as mayor, but he took care of business unlike other surounding city/states like Mich., Wisc., Ind., Ohio, & Minn.! Every city has "troubled areas," but I live in a better section I guess along the lake! You don't see or hear of much happening here! The problem lies on the south and west sides of town where the new mayor, Rahm Emanuel pretty much just let things go, pulling the police off those streets until a furor was heard! Things have to be getting better, but FNN contributors like O'Reilly, Hannity, & Ingraham cite obvious problems to deflect from the racial tensions occurring due to the Trayvon Martin case in FLA! They're all slimeballs and always have been and can't be taken seriously!

    ***I'll be glad when the Zimmerman thing dies down, but there will be some other race based subject that is brought to life. White racism is a big money maker so it is always shoved down our throats.***

    Unfortunately there's already another one of these cases being processed as we speak; errr post! Some guy asked a group of teenagers to lower the volume of their radio and before all was said and done, he had shot into their car killing one of them! He actually went about his business and wasn't arrested until the next day! Stand your ground at work again in FLA! This won't die down any time soon until that ridiculous law is taken off the books!

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  10. ***It's interesting that since '08, the USO has been the most competitive Slam w/ 5 diff. champs from Roger to DelPo to Rafa to Nole and finally Murray.***

    Lendl making 8 finals, winning 3 str. in the 80's and Fed taking 5 str. in the last decade sets them apart from the rest of the pack! It's the last major, prople are wiped out from a long season and hot summer of Masters events! Nadal's had a couple finals, but normally nowhere to be seen this time of the yr! How can he be thought of as "The GOAT" in any capacity?

    ***Using this logic, are you saying Lendl was a greater player than Rafa?***

    Why is that so far fetched? Lendl was the consummate pro who didn't take extended time off, played thru injuries, and represented the men's game with dignity and class! He didn't have the tech of today with illegal strings making the ball dance in the air! I have a lot more respect for Lendl and his #'s than I'll ever have for Nadal! Lendl had to deal with plenty of future HOF'rs like McEnroe, Connors, Sampras, Wilander, Kuerten, Edberg, Becker, & even Borg at the end! Who has Nadal had but one true rival; Federer? Lendl didn't have the benefit of majors w/ seeded draws going to 32! The courts have also been homogenized! You bet I think Lendl is a greater player overall, even w/o a Wimby! He only lost to the eventual winner most of the time! We said the same about Fed for yrs at the FO! Why shouldn't Ivan get the same consideration? At any given time there were 12 players in a draw who had majors! Fed and Nadal had each other and nothing else thru their prime! I'd definitely not question Lendl's overall rank being in the top 10 all time just behind Borg! Even Borg didn't have to withstand as many top players; esp. on clay!

    ***It's a good post Fiero, but of course, a comparison on this basis is problematical. Nadal also had Novak to deal with, playing insane tennis in 2011-Oz '12, and he's missed some time with injuries. I have sympathy with your thesis on the modern game & on how hungry and diverse the players were back in Lendl's time. It was rougher. And I think Lendl gets short shrift a lot of the time when it comes to compiling lists.***

    Djokovic should wind up being in the top 10 as well w/ his great seasons of '11 and '12 alone; and he's not done! He's also been like Lendl in that respect; always there, played hard, & respected the men's game a lot more!

    ***...I'm not counting out Nadal. He must be glad Fed is having so much trouble, b/c it quickly ended discussion after his 1st rd exit at Wimby.***

    Since some of the true greats are still playing, names will flip later:

    1) Federer - 17 majors & holds many records incl. 7 Wimbys & 5 str. USO's)
    2) Laver - 2 cal. yr Gr Slms - should have more majors (11) but for amateur rules
    3) Sampras - Held #1 ranking for 6+ years and won 7 Wimblys, 5 USO's, 2 AO's
    4) Bjorn Borg - Won 5 str wimblys, 6 Fo's (4 str.), & 2 Masters
    5) Rafa Nadal - Won 7 FO's and a career GS (Olym. Gold in singles)
    6) Agassi - Career GS incl. 8 majors and Olympic Gold in singles
    7) Lendl - 8 majors and won 94 titles incl. 3 USO's, 3 FO's, & 5 Masters
    8) Connors - Won 107 titles incl. 5 USO's on 3 surfaces, 2 Wimbys, 1 AO
    9) McEnroe - Won 7 majors incl. 3 str. USO's, 4 overall - 3 Wimbys
    10)Roy Emerson - Honorary top 10 holding 12 majors in singles - (pre-Open era)

    This is just from memory! Novak Djokovic will break into the top 10 in good time!

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  11. ***What gives? You had Lendl before Nadal on another thread.***

    I have little for Nadal, but fair is fair! The man has 7 FO's, a career GS, and Olympic Gold! Besides that, he's still playing! He'll never catch up to many of Lendl's records like 270 weeks at #1 or playing 8 str. USO's, but I have to be a realist! Lendl will never get the respect he deserves! I was lucky to watch and root for him during a very tough era!

    ***I loved Lendl as a player. He was kind of my fave after Borg retired, along with Mats. I had no other faves then until Pete. But why do you have no respect for Ralphy? He's such a humble bully.***

    Besides having one of the ugliest games around, he's like a spoiled child on the court! He makes people wait from the beginning of the match to take pictures to toweling off for extended periods btw every point! He challenges almost everything and is wrong the majority of the time! Nole has picked up that tactic just to balance him out! Fed would have won a couple of those matches at the FO if not for unsportsman-like behavior of Nadal! People think they're great friends! Nothing could be further from the truth! Nadal even joined the ATP Council in a self-serving capacity trying to get them to change the ranking to a 2 year span rather than the current 1 so he could have stayed at #1 longer! People don't pay attention to these little things, but I've been asso'd with, played, and taught the game since '71! I've seen them all including brats like Connors, Nastase, McEnroe, Cliff Richey, & a host of others, but none have offended me with such disengenuousness than Rafa Nadal! It's all an act of self-deprecation, shyness, and being humble while others don't try to hide they're jerks!

    ***I happen to think Roger gets browbeaten too handily by Nadal. Roger goes down too serenely and w/o fire when they meet in majors. ...I thought he should have tried stamping Rafa out when he was a pup in '05, but Nadal was more than he could handle, even back then as a "one-dimensional player."***

    Agreed! Roger's too nice and should call Rafa out on his BS! He's stolen quite a few matches from people in the past from illegal coaching in the stands to taking time outs at crucial times in a match; esp. at Wimby! He should have been upset at least 3 or 4 other times but for his shananigans! Rosol overcame it all last year, but was helped by the roof being closed! Rafa would sooner have come back the next day! They're more than likely mortal enemies now b/c that kid spanked him on the big stage!

    ***To this day, Rafa can't even speak Soderling's name.***

    You can always tell when he's resentful of another player! He doesn't even try to hide his contempt!

    ***1.Federer 2.Pete Sampras 3.Rod Laver 4.Bjorn Borg 5.Rafael Nadal 6.Jimmy Connors 7.Ivan Lendl 8.Pancho Gonzalez 9.John McEnroe 10.Ken Rosewall***

    It seems you're giving more credit to longevity! Interesting, but Rosewall? I'd sooner put Lew Hoad who Rod Laver was 0-7! Sampras never even played in a FO final which is why I placed Laver above him!

    ***Rosewall arguably won more majors than anybody if you count pro-Slams in the split era. He's far more deserving than Emerson on making a Top 10 list. Emo and Agassi were never really the dominant player at any point of their career. Rosewall was the best player in the world for a # of years.***

    Rosewall hurt his image hanging on those last yrs! He was thoroughly embarrassed in '74 by Connors at both Wimby and the USO! I seem to remember he even came into Forest Hills as the 11th seed and was upset early on clay! I wondered what could have been on his mind to do that? His major highlites IMO were his 2 WCT wins over Laver; the only chp at the time Rod was unable to win!

    ***I wouldn't be too hard on him for those tourneys, he was 40 by then. His real peak was the late 50s/early 60s. Maybe hanging on too long did hurt his legacy a little, but for me he's a shoe-in Top 10.***

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  12. ***I wonder how many players have gotten into the HOF and come back?***

    In my lifetime, it's happened only 3 times; Billie Jean King, Martina Navratilova, now Martina Hingis! It made sense for Hingis to wait so now she won't have to wait another few years for induction! Smart girl and still able to compete; esp. in doubles! So far only Navratilova has won any majors after induction; in the pro era anyway! Haven't checked pre-Open records!

    ***Navratilova did it, IIRC. She played singles in the FO and Wimbledon one year.***

    Only top women can get away with extended absences only to come back in 5 or 6 years! The men would eat them alive! Players like Sampras, Courier, and Edberg couldn't do it! Just shows how far the women are behind the men in strength, talent, and the like! How embarrassing to lose to anyone who's been gone off the tour for 5+ years!

    ***...I pick Aga for the title in Standford. She has the highest tennis IQ on tour; maybe 2nd highest when Martina comes back.***

    You covered it for me! The tennis IQ has dropped precipitously since Martina retired with only Aggie holding the fort on smarts and court sense! She doesn't have any power, her serve can be attacked, but at her best, she'll beat players she shouldn't because they're just not intelligent on the court! I've been railing about mindless aggression for years, but only players like Hingis and Radwanska prove my point again and again!

    ***Serena has high tennis IQ and the media never gives her credit. She turned around matches that looked lost w/o her coach giving her on court tips. She has the ability to change the course of the match; good example was the USA Open final at 5-4 with Vika serving for the match. Against Vika in Australia qtrs 2010..against Justine AO10...her ability to win close matches or turning around matches is genius. They will never acknowledge that fact.***

    If her IQ is so high, why does she get into battles with players we don't even know? Please spare us all this intelligence quotient on the court concerning Serena! She's so much better athletically, why 3 sets against anyone; esp. Radwanska on grass? How does that happen unless you're mindlessly wandering around the court, commiting UFE after UFE for no good reason?

    ***Jack Kramer labeled the two-handed backhand in the early 1950’s as a shot that “Limits your power and gives your opponent a psychological advantage.” How wrong was Kramer? He was not even close to being right.***

    Back in the day, there were limitations with the two-handed backhand due to the equipment! Wooden rackets were the only tool at the time until the 70's! You started seeing some aluminum and fiberglass composites, but during Kramers era, there were few you could consider as good enough to use a 2 handed backhand as a weapon! It wasn't until players like Borg and Connors came along to make it en vogue to use a 2-handed backhand as their major weapon that it became common place! It was a new thing around that time! Most players served with 2 balls; even Evert started her service motion with both balls in her hand and if the 1st serve went in, threw it behind her to the backstop! Check classic matches from the era and it'll amaze you to see something like that happen!

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  13. ***Nadal's a battler. I recall John Newcombe was Aussie DC captain some time in the 90's and Pete beat Phillippoussis. After the match, Newc remarked that it was only down court side that he fully experienced the hold Sampras had on the court, the personnel, the umpire, his opponent. He said you don't appreciate how physically he dominates the court until you get close enough, and Rafa has that same alpha presence. Would take a Sampras to knock it out of him, not an umpire with a puny rulebook.***

    Well at least you acknowledge it unlike some of the sycophants around here! It just offends me so much that he pulls this stuff against Federer and Nole who are too nice to say anything! Nole has resorted to copying those tactics it seems! To me it just shows a lack of respect for your opponent! In my day you had McEnroe who would go off for any reason, but against Borg he sucked it up and stayed in control! He obviously only had true respect for him knowing he needed to channel all his energy to beat that one man!

    ***That's true, and even Connors toned it down against Borg. Also, I believe, these boys behaved when they faced Arthur Ashe. It was only Nastase who couldn't fully control himself in the presence of class. But in fairness, Federer isn't like Borg. Fed makes narcissistic comments and wears Village People outfits trumpeting how many Slams he won in the gold-thread filigree. He's a bit smarmy and licks his lips as if he tastes like chocolate.***
    ---

    Since some of the true greats are still playing, some names will flip I'm sure:

    1) Navratilova - 18 majors (59) holds records incl. 9 W's & 4 USO's
    2) Graf - Cal. yr Gr Slams and OG- 22 majors (Seles stabbed in '93)
    3) Court - Cal. year GS and has 62 majors in singles, doubles, & MD
    4) Evert - 18 majors including 7 Fo'sand 6 USO's on 2 surfaces
    5) S. Williams - 16 majors so far in singles, Olympic Gold in singles and doubles (3)

    6)
    7) - - Too open to interpretation at the time they played - -
    8) - Henin, V. Williams, Hingis, and Goolagong probably s/b listed 9) - Pre-Open era stars like Moody, Lenglen, & Connolly w/ honorary mentions

    10) BJ King - 12 majors mother of the WTA (prize money equitable)

    Make your choices for the top 10 of all time for the women!

    ***You're going to catch some flack with that comment "due to Seles being stabbed" as that has been argued here before, ad infinitum. I think your top 4 are interchangeable and you can make an argument for any of them. I suppose I tend towards Graf b/c she had a more impressive peak than the others, but Martina would be my second choice, followed closely by Evert and Court.

    After Serena, you're right, it gets dicey. I think you've got King, Goolagong, Seles, Hingis, and Henin as your best choices in some order. I think your best bet is to keep it "Modern Era" - Open Era plus players like Court and King who straddled the 2 eras.

    MODERN ERA ("Open Era Plus") TOP 10 WOMEN

    1. Graf - 2. Navratilova - 3. Evert - 4. Court - 5. Serena - 6. King - 7. Seles

    And then Goolagong, Venus, Henin, and Hingis in some order.***

    People can argue about comment on the stabbing all they want! The facts are that Seles had Graf's number and she wouldn't be anywhere close to 22 majors if that event hadn't occurred in '93! Seles was far from a fave of mines with all that squealing on court, using that oversized racket, and overall "ugly" game! It was unwatchable at times and she seemed to start it all when it came to that sort of thing! The Williams' have admitted they liked her game and all that noise coming out of her mouth! - As much as I loved watching Evonne Goolagong play, she only held the #1 ranking for a week or 2! Her biggest highlight beside winning 2 Wimbledons, 1 after becoming a mother: she played in 4 str. USO finals; 2 on grass and 2 on clay! Loved Hingis as well, but she obviously played in a weak era and she held the #1 ranking for over 200 weeks! Few will ever do that again!

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  14. ***Martina Hingis won her matches in singles, women's doubles and mixed doubles for the Kastles. She beat Alisa Kleybanova 5-2 in singles.***

    None of those old ladies on WTT are able to handle the court smarts of Hingis! No wonder she thinks she can make a comeback! I can't wait!

    ***How long do you think it will take her to get to the top 10***

    I think it's possible! When Henin returned, she was #13 within months! Depending on the draws, I can see her there by next spring; easily! The women's game isn't that deep!

    ***It's possible, but it won't be easy at all. Hingis has been away from the game for 5 yrs. The power that ran her out of the game back then still exist and to a greater extent it's more prevalent. You have a handful of defensive players that have made a name or themselves, but they've been on tour consistently and have adjusted to the power game of most of the WTA (Errani, Caro, Aga). It will be a new ballgame for Martina if she decides to play singles. ...She should be forced to play challengers.***

    I think not! You don't get a HOF'r making a last run at her age play challenger events!

    ***It's not fair to the players toiling away on the tour for the past 5 years while she was prancing about on horseback.***

    That's just the way it is; esp. if you've reached a certain status! BTW, that's a slimey hit on a great champion! I'm sure you don't want me to bring up Serena being a "homewrecker" out here! No one has clean hands around here; NO ONE!

    ***Novak Djokovic's father has launched a stinging attack on Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal - implying the 2 men are jealous of his son's success. ...***

    His statements aren't any less valid because people don't like the content! This is normal behavior! The same thing happened with Chris and Martina way back when! As long as Evert was winning and beating Navratilova, they could play doubles and be close friends! Evert admitted she had to distance herself when the tide turned, so this is nothing new! It happens again and again; even with the best of friends and families! There's a pecking order that has to be observed and it's usually one-sided until they reach maturity and time has passed! Chris and Martina are better now, but while she ruled from '82-'87, there was a lot of animus and vitriol we didn't even hear about!

    How can anyone make Nole responsible for outside comments? When he started winning, his behavior didn't change in the least! If he loses now to Murray or DelPo, he still embraces them like friends unlike Fed and Nadal who give conquerers a wet noodle handshake and are off the court within moments! I've seen it time and time again and Nole doesn't fit that bill in the least! He seems to be a great guy! If he's a d-bag, he's hiding it a lot better than other top players!

    ***Rafa's playing Canada, but considering withdrawing from Cincy. I suppose he thinks he can play deep in 1 tourney, but not 2. So if Montreal goes well he's out of Cincy, but if it doesn't he might play.***

    This time of the yr is so dicey for Rafa, it's hard to believe people think he can distinguish himself at this late stage in his career; esp. with nagging injuries! He can win everything and still fall short of taking over #1 with the lead Nole has! There's no pressure on Nole in the least! He takes his lumps w/o complaining and stays classy unlike others in the same position!

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  15. The first time I remember NBA Refs being in trouble was due to them trading in their 1st class airline tickets so in the end they were guilty of "tax evasion!" Living in Sacramento for 10 years, I'll always find them to be corrupt with that WCF in '02 vs LA! Kobe smashes Cristy in the face, bloodying his nose, but Cristy gets a foul called against him! ...The NBA could shut down tomorrow and I couldn't care less!

    ***I vaguely remember hearing that tax evasion scandal. When was that? You are spot on regarding Lakers-Kings '02. The biggest ref travesty I've seen in any sport. Truthfully that series had me lose interest for a long time too. I'd recommend getting back into it though, NBA ball is very healthy right now unless your hatred for LeBron is too much to bear.***

    A quick search said Steve Javie testified in '98 to tax evasion charges! As for basketball, you hit the nail on the head with LeBron! He's so unlikeable, I can't stand to see his face! He was to be the next star, so mature for his age, then he dumped Cleveland like a bad habit! He couldn't even let them know his plans with them doing all kinds of things like firing the coach for nothing! His ego was so out of control, he thought when visiting with The Heat that his posey could ride right into the players garage and was told to "kick rocks!" I'm so done with that d-bag! I was so hoping San Antonio would take last year's final, but they blew that 6th game and they were done! Pop was the most responsible taking out Parker near the end! They turned the ball over and that was that! That could be Duncan's last chance to win a title!

    ***Fiero, all I will say regarding LeBron is that there have been far worse guys in the league, some of which are made out to be infallible heroes. I don't care for LeBron's ego, but fact of the matter is he is the 2nd best baller I've seen (started watching in the early 90's) and we all know who #1 is. In bball I just respect greatness since my horse in the race is almost never around past April.***

    Well being from Chicago, I'm terribly disillusioned with the sport when you have a reigning MVP, D Rose taking a whole year off even though he was cleared to play months before the playoffs! I'm so done with the sport! Football is king, even with teams I don't know anything about! They keep it homoginized enough you don't get the offensive behavior you get in basketball & baseball! Now A-Rod is embarrassing his sport trying to hang on even though he's been busted; big time for PED's! He's a money Ho and can't just walk away with the millions he's already ripped off! I've been done with baseball since they've all but banned Bonds; hypocrites! At least my White Sox took a title before I'm gone! THE Cubs can "kick rocks" with their loser mentality! I can see their home from my apartment, but haven't been to a game in decades!

    ***In any event, the last time Rojay defeated Novak, the NYT published an article expressing shock at Roger and Mirka's tackless celebrations in the tunnels. The article described it as tantamount to taunting. Obviously, Roger and Mirka aren't the paragon of unassailable moral rectitude that his fans and much of the press have been trying to perp on the unsuspecting public.***

    Roger lost his luster and innocence a while back! He's still the best we've ever seen, but his ego has inflated and his persona declined! I've seen him rude with linespeople and the unpire! He actually told some people in the stands to shut up! That is not what we're accustomed in seeing from him! Just proves the end is near!

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  16. ***Connors and Mac would have abused Rafa like he can't imagine! It would have been constant fodder for ESPN. Frankly, Roger would likely snap back at them before Nadal would if they started in on him; he's a bit more reactive personality-wise to on court matters. ...Actually, McEnroe playing at peak form would be a very tough out for anyone, including Roger and Rafa.***

    No one today attacks the net as relentlessly as McEnroe! It's almost embarrassing to see some of these people up there; floudering, hoping, making easy plays when possible! The point usually has to be almost won even when someone like Rafa goes up to net! Roger is being stubborn in his old age, not realizing he has to come in more or he'll start losing to more players outside of the top rung!

    ***It seems to me the key criteria are GS when it comes to overall historic ranking. Events and winning or going deep (to finals) in the ones you played in--across all surfaces, and total weeks at #1 as that necessarily includes major victories and plenty of lower tier titles that make a player the best of a given year or epoch. Under those criteria, guys like Federer, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, & Nadal have to be up there. There are others they had many weeks at #1, no less than 7 majors, a slew of other titles, and won or went to finals on all surfaces (except Sampras and Connors, tech.--although Connors won Slams on all surfaces like Fed and Rafa).
    ---

    The problem with this list is that, you or anyone is basically concluding that Fed is better than Sampras, Laver, or Nadal and vice versa based on results mostly or perhaps entirely. For all I know, there's absolutely no way of knowing how Sampras would have fared in Laver's era or Federer's era given the same competitive level.***

    Just a footnote to your comments, it's hard for other reasons as well; elite rivals, etc.! Supposedly Lew Hoad was undefeated against Laver, but no one's going to say he was better overall! He's never even mentioned even though he won 3 of 4 majors in '56; losing USO final only!

    ***...the reasoning might be that Roger needs a few matches under his belt and then he can try to defend his title in Cincy.***

    Dream on! You might as well take those 1000 points off his total! I'm as much a Fed fan as anyone, but you have to be realistic people! He can't "shake off father time" forever! Even Martina had to say good-bye in '94 approaching 40! She went out with class in a Wimbledon final! Not sure Roger can even make another major run! He used up a lot just taking that last one in '12!

    ***Forgive me for being too open, but I really like your posts Fiero. I wish and only hope that Nole has half of the success that Roger has in his 30's. He may, but I am not so sure about that. I think it's just crazy how long Roger has stayed on top. If I were his fan, I wouldn't regret if he hangs his racquet up tomorrow. Although who knows with him, he might surprise you. He needs to be close to 100% healthy, have a bit of luck, and voila a final in USO. I am not counting him out yet.***

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  17. ***And last year, Federer got back to #1, against all predictions. I would caution against smugness.***

    Federer wasn't dropping like a stone in the rankings at the time of his reemurgence last season! He's at #5 and about to drop to #6 in a week or so! Let's not go totally whacko thinking he has another soul to sell to the Devil! lol! I suppose anything can happen, but he'd have to duplicate his fall and winter of '11, win the WTF, then make a run at the Aussie Open! Making a commitment to play Brisbane won't be enough!

    ***Fiero - As has been stated numerous times by posters and Roger himself, he's been suffering from back problems at least as far back as Indian Wells. If he heals, I wouldn't count him out by any means. If the problems persist, it will become increasingly difficult for him physically and ego-wise to stay in the game.***

    Honey, it's called getting old! He's not going to get better! He won't and can't take any significant time off so forget it; he's about done! Sorry! Roger's game was more effortless than Rafa's which gave him more time, but it's still catching up to him!

    ***I hope we get Serena vs Azarenka are in the Toronto final.***

    Squealing and screeching all the way no doubt! My mom keeps asking when are they going to step in and silence these banshees? I assume it'll be th "twelfth of never!" It's been all talk about "grandfathering" in rules against it! If anything, new players are even louder on the court! Disgusting!

    ***I agree with you in not having any points. - Actually, I believe the Olympic points were only started fairly recently and players use to play without points before.***

    It definitely wouldn't be fair to carryover these points since not everyone even has a chane to participate in the Olympics! People aren't taking that into consideration it seems!

    ***That's a good point. Which makes that much more argument for not awarding points at all. Remember that good players in power-house countries don't even get a chance to play, b/c of player limit, whereas lower-ranked players do, just b/c their country gets to field a team.***

    Haas "was" on the verge of taking 1st set in Citi-Open in DC! Some really bad UFE's puts him down in the TB! No fan of DelPo, but I hope he wins in straights! It would be terribly unfair for him to be back on the court in less than 12 hours to play final if it goes deep into the night! I still remember an abomination at the USO quite a few years ago! A player didn't wrap up until well after midnight in 5 sets, but had him on the court at noon playing Connors the next day! I personally would have told them to "kick rocks," but he gave it a go and meekly went down 2, 2, & 2! So far DelPo takes the 1st set!

    ***The rain delay was unfortunate for Haas, b/c I think he would have run away with the first, but he let his head get away from him in the TB. I hope he can pull himself back together and make it a match, though I agree the winner will want to get off the court and be in good shape for the final tomorrow.***

    Isner started out hot and took the 1st set easily against DelPo who appears a bit hungover losing it 1-6! "Wake up Chico!" - He's on the way back, winning the 2nd set; up a break at 4-1! He almost took out Isner with a forehand while he was at the net breaking his serve again! Wow! It's all DelPo with a 2nd break, 5-1 serving for it!

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  18. ***The Magnificent Five : 5 Best Quarterbacks In NFL History

    I will fire off the first shot:

    1. Montana
    2. Bradshaw
    3. Tarkenton
    4. Unitas
    5. Staubach***

    Shocking! Bradshaw is usually never mentioned; even with 4 SB rings! They overlook him due to so many other HOF'rs on his team I guess! I'd have to say the same for Montana, but few would agree! Brady would make my list since he's done it for over so many years with few other consistant team mates to help out! Rodgers will end up being on everyone's list before all is said and done; doing it all with passes and running ability! Tarkenton's at the bottom of my list without any rings and mostly doing his thing to inflate his own numbers; and little else! Hated Dallas, but I have a lot of respect for Staubach taking punishment for his team! Unitas was well before my time!

    - 1) Bradshaw
    - 2) Montana
    - 3) Brady
    - 4) Staubach
    - 5) Rodgers (TBD)

    ***Dan Marino would have to be included as should Elway and Aiken who played with Emmett Smith).***

    Jim Kelly was better than Marino and Tarkenton as a leader of men! His numbers didn't come first like the later 2! He made 4 straight SB's; no one will ever do that again! Elway and Aiken do deserve a mention!

    ***Kelly and Elway were real leaders and great qb's. I think Brady has done more than those 2 over time though. I never cared for Fran as a QB, but he was a good guy. Marino was an amazing talent--quickest release since Broadway Joe I've heard many say. He never had much running support, but he was fearless on the field. There were many greats, but the ultimate Field Marshall was Unitas--he called all his own plays and actually got into a row with a young coach by the name of Shula late in his career in Baltimore. To me that is what puts him above Montana or Staubach.
    ---

    Montana - Marino - Unitas - Staubach - Brady

    Maybe Peyton deserves a nod instead of Brady - close to call.***

    OCO, instead of Brady? You're kidding right? No QB has been more of an underachiever than Peyton Manning! Even his brother has accomplished more in the post season! That's what it's all about and Peyton has shown himself to be a killer loser with all those regular season numbers that mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things! lol! - I wouldn't replace Brady who has 3 SB rings to these losers who have none; no matter what their numbers are during the regular season! Overall, I think Moon would have surpassed them all if he had been able to compete legitimately, toiling away in Canada! He still had an "arm" well past 40!

    ***Brady made my 5 already, but I think you underappreciate Manning. He's like an old school operator running an offense, unlike some of the robots who's thinking don't extend beyond an earpiece.***

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  19. ***My Top 5 QB's: Montana - Unitas - Elway - Brady - Manning

    It's a tough list and there are no right or wrong answers, but you have to put a lot of weight on winning (which puts Marino just out of my top 5). Meanwhile Aikman and Bradshaw had amazing teams around them and actually had fairly average stats despite winning multiple rings. Stats aren't everything of course, but they tell us a lot. It's tough for me to even have Manning at #5 b/c he has been so poor in the postseason. Same reason Favre isn't there, as a Packer fan I watched playoff disaster after playoff disaster the last 10 years of his career.***

    Even though I'm in Chgo, I still have a lot of admiration for Rodgers and don't mind his winning; except if he plays the Bears of course! I see him being greater than Favre quite easily; just give him time! Favre wasted so many years just inflating his stats like Tarkenton and Marino! Good luck up there!

    ***I can't wish you guys good luck, but thanks for the generous post. Rodgers definitely has the potential to pass Favre and pretty much everyone else who has ever played, but there is a long way to go. I will be surprised and very disappointed if the Packers don't win at least 1 more ring with that man at the helm. The last 2 years have been blown opportunities w/ Rodgers in his prime. As long as that defense sucks it will continue to be the same story. Defense doesn't necessarily win chps, but good luck winning one if you have a weak D.

    Favre in his prime was an absolute monster but he had a lot of bad years and he had a lot of bad playoff chokes. Great QB overall and he is the toughest SOB I've seen at any position. That also is a new worry for Packer fans, we are not used to having a normal human at QB that can actually get hurt. - Elway was one hell of a passer.***

    I didn't realize it was Reeves who stifled Elway all those years! I had a real problem with him after that lame excuse when drafted by Baltimore in '83! Only him and Eli Manning have acted with that kind of arrogance; "I'm not gonna play for you!" I applauded what was happening to him, being abused by the Raiders and KC for a lot of that time, only picking up 2 SB's in his waning years! He should have had more, but I cursed him for his rotten, egotistical attitude! I took it off for Shanahan's sake after KC had passed, around the time Derrick Thomas was killed in Atlanta, SB weekend! It was put back on when Tebow was on the team! I truly can't stand that guy! No talent, but thinks he's Gawd's gift to football! Now he wandering the league as a backup! Why hasn't he been murdered out there on the field?
    ---

    ***I've heard Patrick McEnroe talk about adding clay courts to the USTA center in NY. In other words, he's thinking along these same lines and recognizes the advantages of training on clay. This is very smart of him. Considering 3 of 9 Masters are played on clay, and 1 of 4 majors, that's 4 of 13 of the big tournys each year taking place on a surface the US players practically write off. We'll never get another #1 unless they take seriously the surface on which nearly a 3rd of the big tournys occur to become truly competitive. If you add Wimbledon, approximately 40% don't take place on a hardcourt. With Roddick now retired we saw what happened there this year, making history in the worst possible way. Sure, the USO, plus the IW, Miami, & Cinci Masters are in the US, but they're not the whole story, and it's time US players realize that.***

    We hurt ourselves with that schitzo period changing from grass to clay to the current hardcourt back in the 70's at the USO! Kids still played and trained on clay; except in California of course and I think that hurt us serious when it came to our juniors and the future of elite players! Clay is best for training; keeping balls in play, strategy at a premium, and not so hard on the body! Hard for me to say since I was brought up on cement, but I only reached city and state status!

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  20. ***I really don't care whether Hingis s/b inducted into the Tennis HOF. The quality of her play was decent for her size, covered the court well, and she did win some major titles. ...I suppose the bottom line is: are there other players besides Martina who deserve to be in the Hall and are not?***

    Why can't people get over this little girl? There's no one more deserving than she is since she held the #1 ranking well over 200 weeks w/ only 3 women ahead of her! She has countless other records w/ her being the youngest this and the youngest that!

    ***...Djokovic was making millions by then anyway, so quit pretending the players were laughing at him for wearing 2nd hand clothes or had a hole in his shoe they couldn't afford to fix. It's not true at all.***

    I'm a fan and think Fed probably is the undisputed GOAT, but his ego's been out of control for as long as I can remember! I'm sure he's said some things he regrets about Nole; well us knowing it anyway! If he wanted to hit someone with accusations, it should have been Nadal who's unsportsmanlike behavior has cost him matches at the FO and Wimbledon; the stalling/toweling off, challenging of calls (usually wrong), systematic calling of trainers when down in a match, illegal coaching from the stands, etc.! The so called friendship is a scam! I believe they hate each other's guts! Nole's remained classy, grounded, and embraces his opponents/friends even after a tough loss!
    ---

    Who Owns Each Slam - Trophy Name Change?

    Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy b/c of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why?

    Australian Open is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

    For the ladies, Margaret Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Goolagong!

    -
    French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him w/ 8 titles! For the Ladies, Evert is Queen of clay w/ 7 titles!

    -
    Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 str., he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7! Sampras has an honorable mention w/ 7 titles as well!

    Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass w/ 9 singles titles: 5 str. ('82-'87)

    -
    US Open had several dominant figures w/ McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 str. finals, but again Federer dominated with 5 str. titles! This is why he's the GOAT w/ 1 FO & 4 AO's! You have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

    ***I'd still put Pete a little ahead of Fed at Wimbledon. I just think he was better on grass and it's also a big deal that he was 7 of 7 in the finals. I'd take Roger at the USO for similar reasons, best I've seen there and 5 straight. If he wins another Slam it will be there. RG is obvious and AO you could argue a few but I'd take Nole there. It will be a moot point when he wins again and I think he wins at least 2 more there.
    ---

    AO--Emerson or Rosewall--Novak is 3rd pick--Court for the ladies
    FO--Nadal and Evert--Borg is substitute for Rafa; Steffi for Chrissie
    Wimbledon--Sampras or Federer (probably Pete) and McEnroe is 3rd--Navratilova for the ladies
    US Open--Connors; Federer is 2nd choice--for the ladies, Evert or Graf***

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  21. ***Do you like Murray? I'm just curious as I'd like to know who's coming from where.
    ---

    Generally speaking yes. I don't care for his game (find it a bit boring), but I like him as a person a lot (much more than Nadal or Federer). I'm glad he has won majors now (and always thought he would), but was not happy he won them playing Novak (who I support).
    ---

    I like upsets (except against my players), and I do like Gulbis's game and him in general, and I think him playing well is good for the sport, as he has a lot of talent and can shake things up amongst the top 20 or so players. Not that he is going to win a major or anything. - So in short, I'm not an Andy hater.***

    Sounds like me; not an Andy hater, but his game is boring and he works too hard to beat players he should beat routinely! I do support Nole now since Fed is falling back in the pack! It's almost that time in his career, but I still feel he's the GOAT! Nadal won't get a sniff of that title since he does the same as Murray; makes life so difficult by playing so defensively! Neither will last as long as Federer who makes it all seem so easy!

    ***I gotta tell ya, I think Fed's GOAT title is in trouble, from Nadal. I do think he stands quite a good chance of taking Fed's title. Seeing as he already has the h2h lead, ...And I think it is certainly possible Nadal doesn't pass Fed. ...Because Fed doesn't look like he's going to be able to keep going much longer with these back problems. I hope I'm wrong. All I'm saying is I do think it's possible for Nadal to pass him.
    ---

    Long as Rafa is in there, he's fave, far as I can see. We yield no ground to nobody. He's looking good and everybody else better bring an umbrella, b/c Rafa has nothing to lose here, but lots to gain.
    ---

    This is how I want my Nadal fans, delusionally overconfident. Seriously though Nadal won Indian Wells. if he gets better every match no reason he cant give Novak problems. Although it goes without saying Novak will crush him!***

    Wow, talk about delusional! Nadal, the favorite; this time of year? Some need to seek serious help! lol!

    ***...Nadal was fit in 2011 too. Even more so. He was in 8 finals; 3 in Slams. He just went up against Nole.***

    You have to beat Novak! He's not just going to give it to you! Like that old Smith Barney commercial, "you'll have to EARN IT!"

    ***Del Potro and Berdych either didn't play Montreal/Toronto last year or lost early then as well, so no change in 5, 6, 7 rank.***

    How embarrassing for Roger; depending on people losing early to hold onto rank of #5! Wow; how the mighty have fallen! As I've been saying, he used up everything he had to take that Wimbledon and #1 ranking for a few months! Let's hope he doesn't drop out of the top 10 by years' end!

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  22. ***If Rafa wins his next round in Montreal, he passes Ferrer and takes the #3 spot. He would then be within 1400 points of Murray for the #2 rank with nothing to defend. (If he wins the tournament, he's within 1000 of Murray, and a little over 2000 of Djokovic. Not outside of the realm of possibility. Keep your eyes on that rear-view mirror boys!)***

    We all love you for your thinking and efforts around here darling, but "dream on!" lol! The summer and fall is not Rafa's time, even when he was at his heights and healthy! He reminds me more of an older player trying to hang on other than an elite athlete! He hasn't impressed me at all with his play, barely squeaking through so far!

    ***You can laugh at me for a fantasist if you like, but to say that Rafa has 'barely' squeaked through so far, are you referring to his 6-2 6-0 win over Levine? OK, JJ was a challenge, but he got less of a close-shave than Nole did last night over Istomin.

    As to rankings, I'm only doing the math. IF Rafa were to win here, he'd be less than a 1000 points from Murray who is defending 2000 at the USO. Even if Andy makes the final, but fails to defend, he loses 800 points. Djokovic is defending final points at the USO (1200). Wins here and Shanghai (1000 ea.), Beijing (500), & WTF (1500). ...he's defending 0 points. W/ some good results and 'a little help from his friends,' he could gain a lot of ground on them.
    ---

    It does seem like people have forgotten the '12 Aussie final. Rafa has played incredible HC tennis fairly recently. He has more HC Slams than Andy as well. He has adjustments to make for sure, but discount Rafa at your own risk.***
    ---

    Today's running backs don't even compare to the awesome power and running ability of Jim Brown! He was the offense of the Browns with everyone knowing where the ball was going! He still ran over the defense getting 200+ yards almost every game! That was why he held the record for so many years with only 9 years in the league! Eric Dickerson would have been the best if his ego wasn't so big which insighted defenses to put a hurting on him! Sanders isn't even in my top 10! The little dude had to be taken off the field inside his own 20 and inside the opposition's 20 due to his losing of yards most of those times! OJ is right in there along with a more current guy who's very underrated, Terrell Davis who single-handed gave Elway his first Super Bowl win! If not for migranes, he'd still be running!

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  23. ***Which do you think is the greatest of the modern rivalries, in terms of great matches, the contrast between both players, and the historical significance?***

    W/ women, Martina vs Chris is the consummate rivalry with a contrast of style, longevity, and number of matches! You can't outdo 80 contests; all in the quarters, semi's, & finals! Martina rushed the net relentlessly while Chris did her thing from the baseline! Navratilova got off to a bad start (23-7) due to bad habits, lack of conditioning, and probably being in awe of Evert, but she turned it all around in '81 racing past her to overtake the lead, ending in '88 with 43 wins to 37 losses! That's including 2 or 3 spankings on Evert's beloved clay; 6-2, 6-0 at WTA Chp and 6-3, 6-1 at the FO; both in '84! Martina became the GOAT through her run in the mid 80's where no one could touch her!

    The men's biggest rivalries were Borg v Connors, McEnroe v Borg, Lendl v McEnroe, Sampras v Agassi, & Federer v Nadal! W/ Bjorn single-handedly stopping Jimmy from winning 4 Wimbledons, Connors returned the favor at the USO! Lendl started well against McEnroe, then the tide turned for a 2 yrs in '83 & '84, but after that Ivan owned John and thrashed him several times! Borg and McEnroe had the most complete rivalry; same as Martina/Chris with net rusher vs a baseliner! Sampras and Agassi's rivalry really was more a product of wishful thinking w/ Pete winning most of their major encounters at Wimbledon and the USO! Agassi got a couple; 1 at the FO and 1 AO final was played with a heavy heart as Pete's coach had collapsed a few days before, crashing thru a glass cocktail table! He barely got by Courier a days before in 5 sets, actually breaking down in tears!

    ***The Chris/Nav rivalry was tops as Fiero mentioned. If we are talking men, then I still go with Lendl/Mac; Borg/Mac was cut short. I'm in the minority where I don't believe McEnroe ran Borg out of tennis. Borg/Connors was good. Borg mastered Connors for a time on the pro tour. Didn't feel Sampras/Agassi was a great rivalry. Sampras in his day, was the superior player, no doubt.***

    ITA about Borg retiring! It's so overstated John single-handedly sent Bjorn packing! That makes no sense! No one in modern time had to deal with so many rivals, winning so many big matches, and for a time being untouchable at most majors! Winning 5 Wimbledons on that stuff they called called grass, from the baseline, w/ a wood racket made Borg the King until Sampras and Federer came along! He was even better on clay winning 6 FO, 2 and 4 straight, often taking a Wimbledon w/ little time to prepare! He also won the Old World triple once with an Italian Open, FO, & Wimbledon in '78! No matter what Rafa and Roger do from here on out, they'll never come close to the record of Borg! People don't remember that even though he retired at 26, he had been a pro since 15, elevated to a seeded player at Wimbledon due to the men's ATP boycott in '73! He was injured a couple times at the USO which hurt; a bad thumb made him lose his racket on the serve and a bum shoulder where he had to retire vs Stockton who was lobbing him relentlessly! The true upset only came once against Tanner blasting serves in a late night match in '79!

    ***Yep, Roscoe beat Bjorn in 4 in the 1/4's of the USO in '79. Interestingly, all the guys he beat in the Wimbledon finals from '78-'80 avenged those losses at Flushing Meadows, all Americans and all lefties: Connors, Tanner, & McEnroe. I think he'd burnt himself out and Mac was the straw that broke the camel's back. He wanted to continue, but a reduced schedule, ITF wouldn't allow that. The effort required to hunt down Mac was too much.***

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  24. ***A Tennis Frontier All-Time Greatest Players List - Help me!

    My previous list was incorrect in that I gave too many points for amateur Slams (and messed up Edberg). Here's an updated version, using the system I just described:

    1. 230 Roger Federer
    2. 210 Ken Rosewall
    3. 176 Pete Sampras
    4. 159 Ivan Lendl
    5. 157 Rod Laver
    6. 157 Jimmy Connors
    7. 155 Rafael Nadal
    8. 147 Andre Agassi
    9. 141 Bjorn Borg
    10. 128 Pancho Gonzales
    11. 113 John McEnroe
    12. 108 Stefan Edberg
    13. 108 Novak Djokovic
    14. 102 Mats Wilander
    15. 101 Boris Becker
    16. 99 Roy Emerson
    17. 84 John Newcombe

    It makes more sense for Rosewall to be behind Federer, but now Laver seems too low.

    Here's an alternate system that gives 12 points for Open Era Slam wins (as opposed to 10, thus giving more weight to peak performance), 7 for Pro Slam wins, and 5 for Amateur Slams:

    1. 264 Roger Federer
    2. 237 Ken Rosewall
    3. 204 Pete Sampras
    4. 181 Rod Laver
    5. 179 Rafael Nadal
    6. 175 Ivan Lendl
    7. 173 Jimmy Connors
    8. 163 Bjorn Borg
    9. 163 Andre Agassi
    10. 130 Pancho Gonzales
    11. 127 John McEnroe
    12. 120 Stefan Edberg
    13. 120 Novak Djokovic
    14. 116 Mats Wilander
    15. 113 Boris Becker
    16. 102 Roy Emerson
    17. 96 John Newcombe

    This 2nd list seems more intuitively correct.

    First of all, I love the top 5 (although not nec. in that order) - those seem to be the 5 greatest players of all time.

    The next 5 also seem correct, although again perhaps not in that order. One could argue, for instance, that Borg should be #6. That said, I like the fact that Borg and Agassi have the same total - it makes sense in a way, in that they represent the two poles of careers: Borg's super-high peak but quick retirement, and Agassi's long and winding road.

    I also like the third group of 5, although obviously Novak continues to rise and will eventually jump into the top 10. Probably.

    There are still a couple problems, however. For instance, Ken Rosewall. He was a very dominant player during the 50s and much of the 60s, and remained good into the mid-70s, but he was still generally considered 2nd fiddle to either Pancho Gonzales and Rod Laver, both of whom he had losing records against (75-107 vs. Gonzales, 63-79 vs. Laver).

    But all things tolled, I like this 2nd list better - in more heavily weighing Slam wins, it brings more value to peak levels. At the least it allows to see a few clear tiers of players:

    Top 5: Federer, Rosewall, Laver, Sampras, Nadal - these are the candidates for GOAT

    Next 5: Lendl, Connors, Agassi, Borg, Gonzales - contenders, but all are clearly just shy of GOAT territory (although Borg could have been in the discussion if he played a few more years).

    Next 5: The rest of the all-time greats

    I'll try to get numbers for the early greats to see if I can flesh this list out a bit, maybe to a top 30 of all time. I imagine Vilas, Courier, Ashe, and Murray would make it of Open Era players, but that the rest of the top 30 would be filled by older players - Tilden, Vines, Hoad, Lacoste, Cochet, Budge, Perry, Sedgman, Trabert, and Kramer all being likely candidates.***

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  25. ***Serena is more focused on Slams! This is what I read around here...Are we suppose to believe it? She has 8 titles this year, only one Slam, lost the other 2, that's 1 out of 3! 33% to be exact. However, she only lost Doha, that's 7 out of 8 for regular tournys she played. She lost only one, she didn't play Dubai and withdrew, so I'm not counting that one. 7 out of 8 is 87.5%.***

    I'm sure she feels that way, but she waited too late to get serious about becoming the GOAT! Federer only seems to care about winning majors at this point in his career, but time has just about run out on him! He'll need help just to make finals; upsets, imjuries, and a lot of luck! He very well may win one more, but it won't be because he's as good as he ever was!

    ***In my mind to be focused on Slams, you have to be giving effort in the smaller events. You can't just withdraw withdraw withdraw and expect to do your best. So the statement is true. The AO loss was really just bad luck, but that's part of the sport. No one will ever have a perfect season.
    ---

    Wimbledon - Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles and the trophy is already named after one of them.***

    Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

    ***Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become Chip and Duck.***

    Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that one sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

    ***...I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where in the 1st set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won 21 of those points. That game will not work the way Serena returns powder puff serves. Martina would chip and before she takes 2 steps toward the net the ball will have passed her. And on Serena's serve, Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have done. And in '12 Wimbledon Chp. she had 102 aces. Yes, Martina's career was magnificent and will never be duplicated. She deserves all credit. But that was against the players of her time. I have seen King, Nav. Evert, Graf etc play. Evert was my Fav player back then. And I have never seen a player better than Serena at her best...***

    As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they had bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

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  26. Best Seasons - Male And Female! Before Federer, Nadal, & Djokovic, you could count the truly great seasons on one hand! You had Connors winning 3 of 4 majors in '74, Rod Laver with his 2 Grand Slams ('62, '69), Borg's '78 winning The Old World Triple (Rome, Paris, Wmbldn), McEnroe who was almost unbeatable in '84, and the career Slam and Olympic Gold of Andre Agassi! Amazingly enough within the last 6 yrs, we've had career Grand Slams achieved by Federer and Nadal with Silver and Gold Olympic medals respectively and Djokovic taking 3 of 4 majors in 2011 along with several Masters events! Honorary mentions of Wilander's '88, Lendl's ('86-87), Sampras ('93-97) with multiple majors and WTF!

    For the ladies, it's a little easier, but no less impressive with Margaret Smith Court winning the Grand Slam in '70, Graf's Golden Slam of '88, career Slams by King, Evert, Navratilova (6 majors in a row), Sharapova, and Serena Williams with Olympic Gold in singles and doubles(2)! This is all off the top of my head! Any additions you think should make it?

    ***Fiero, I understand some of the matches may not have been as competitive as someone would like a Slam final to be, but ultimately she could only play who was on the other side of the net. It's a great accomplishment. The only way it could be broken is if someone was able to win all 4 majors, Olympic in singles, and then Olympic in doubs or mixed. There's not one player on either tour dominant and consistent enough to do it for Brazil. I just don't see it happening; that's why I think her record is safe.***

    I think Steffi was always vulnerable at the YEC even taking 5 sets to beat a 16 y.o. Hingis one year! If there was an upset to be had during Graf's best years, it was there; a fast indoor court! I forgot both Ivan Lendl and Martina Navratilova have a record that will be unmatched for all time, winning the respective YEC twice in '86! The Masters was in jan. for a while until they decided to move it to Nov. while the ladies' was initially in march and was also moved! I think Lendl beat Becker both times, while Martina knocked off Hana Mandlikova in 4 in march, then came back in nov. to defeat Graf in straights!

    ***Serena is human. I think its even worse now with the pressure of history on her shoulders. But I would say "at her best" she is as close to being unbeatable as I have ever seen. ...I think if Serena had focused on tennis 24/7 when she was younger the way that Nav, Evert, Graf etal did, We might not be having this conversation about her catching up to them.***

    Should of, would of, could of; all moot now since she didn't focus on her tennis 24/7! She shouldn't be surprosed she has so many detractors because of it! Both were negligent trying to do more than make history and now they're paying for it! Venus is truly embarrassing herself, going into tourneys unseeded, but still going down to players I don't even know! After all these years, Serena still hasn't reached 600 wins! That's unbelievable in comparison to the other greats who have over 1000! She can't possibly catch them and she won't last like Navratilova who played well until she was almost 40! If all is clicking for Serena, she's the best today, but things are all clicking for her! She's had appalling losses with leads, breaks, and the like which are hard to overlook! That's why you try to get those wins at a younger age due to the mental side taking over later in life! Please don't go to the "if" card; we're talking facts, reality, and NOW! There's no sense talking about what could have been! Martina and Chris actually did what they coukl and have no regrets! Serena and Venus have plenty of them now and they're paying for it historically! They could have done so much more and should have been the best; both of them!

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  27. ***This big 4 may all be in the top 10 of all time (Fed, Rafa and surely Djoker will, but Murray has time). Fed and Rafa are already there, and barring a catastrophic collapse Djokovic will be as well. But Murray? He's got a long way to go and it may be too little too late.

    Looking at all of tennis history, there are 29 men with 5+ Slams, only 7 of whom have 10+ Slams. I think all 7 except for Roy Emerson deserve to be considered top 10, so you've got six spots--Federer, Sampras, Nadal, Borg, Laver, & Tilden--that are likely safe as Andy Murray is unlikely to get 8 more Slams. But then you have a log-jam of 20 players with 6-8 Slams, and then add Emerson in the mix with Pancho Gonzales.

    If we look only at the Open Era, which is much easier and cleaner, Andy's chances of being top 10 are much greater. Ahead of him in Slam count are Federer, Nadal, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Agassi, Wilander, Newcombe, Rosewall, Laver, Edberg, Becker, Djokovic, Ashe, Vilas, Courier, Kodes and Kuertan - 18 players in all. If we assume that Andy has at least three more Slams, he passes Ashe, Vilas, Courier, Kodes, and Kuerten - but is still outside the top 10.

    My point being, Andy is going to have to win at least 6 Slams, possibly 7 or 8, to be a top 10 player - even of the Open Era. That 6-8 range is really key, and separates the very best ("inner circle greats") from the next tier ("outer circle greats"). Novak is already in the latter group and is likely to join the former group, while Andy still has to work his way into the latter group. We'll be watching.***

    Just proved what I've been saying, we may have more skilled players with superior conditioning, but way back when, the winners of majors were more diverse and plentiful! Federer, Nadal, & Djokovic have been quite selfish allowing outsiders to take just 1 or 2 while most can't even make a final to have it contested! Even Sampras had quite a few scrubs to at least try and take a final! These days it's the same 4 or 5 players not even giving others an opportunity! If not for Del Po and Murray, it would look even worse! This is really how the game looked for a few years with Navratilova and Evert with Mandlikova the only one of a few that could challenge them with any consistancy in the early to mid 80s!

    ***Fiero425, one of the most talent-rich eras--in terms of all-time greats being at or near their peak--that doesn't get talked about as much as the late 70s or the last few years, is the late 80s and early 90s - when you had Edberg, Becker, Wilander, and Lendl all in their primes, Connors and McEnroe were still around and playing well, and Sampras, Agassi, Courier and their group was just getting started. What an amazing wealth and diversity of talent.***

    I posted a while back that at any given time you might have 12 different men with majors around that time; late 80s to early 90s! It was an embarrassment of riches that may not happen again any time soon! I can see a bunch of different winners after Nadal and Federer have retired, but the quality of play won't be there! It'll be like Marion Bartoli winning Wimbledon and Sam Stosur taking the USO! Lendl heralded this era of the super baseliner with a lot of these characters rarely venturing to the net besides to shake hands and accept a check! Right now Djokovic is the best at it with Nadal on his last legs!

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  28. ***If Fed doesn't reach SF in Cincy, his ranking will go down to 6 (even if Berdych loses in 1st rd).***

    I warned people, Roger will have to depend on others to keep his ranking in the top 10! You can't drop by this much in the way of form and keep it in the top 4 w/o making some semi's and finals! He spent it all in '12! Same thing happened to Sampras; won Wimbledon in 2000 and didn't take anything until '02 USO! He had dropped out of the top 20, but was seeded #17 when he took his last major; USO!

    ***People often talk about history as if it's just a constant progression with things getting better and better. The reality is that there are stretches of progress AND regress.***

    Well I'm not going to call them idiots, maybe misguided or narrow-minded! As stated, both women and men go through cycles and right now the men are limited while the women have more diversity w/ players who win majors! It had to happen sooner or later! I think it'll be wide open after Roger, Nadal, and Nole leave the game! Heaven knows Murray won't be able to dominiate as they have; even in a cal. yr., much less multiple yrs in a row! Like Rafa, I think he works too hard to beat players I don't even know! He should make short work of them if not in the top 20, maybe attack the net to get the practice, but both tend to keep backing up and working points the hard way; now that's stupid!

    ***Don't forget that Andy's the exact same age as Nole - people often talk about him as if he's younger and taking the reins. Chances are he doesn't last much longer than Novak.
    ---

    That's true! And incredibly, Rafa's only a year older than both of them. To the lazy eye, he must be 5 years older! He has more miles on the clock, to be sure, but he's achieved so much more also.***

    But at what cost? The miles are definitely showing, but I think it's going to be worse for him! I think of M. Chang who grinded out wins over people for yrs! I think I have a faint recollection of hip replacements, if not more going on! Tennis shouldn't be like football where guys fall apart after retiring! We're supposed to be better off than that, but you hear stuff like this more; esp. with the women! Players like Martina and Roger played with a fluidity and grace that doesn't seem to debilitate them like others and they're playing longer than the rest of the crowd!

    ***Career matches
    Federer: 1117 in 16 yrs, or 70/yr
    Nadal: 756 in 12 yrs, or 63/yr
    Djokovic: 641 in 10 yrs, or 64/yr
    Murray: 543 in 9 yrs, or 60/yr

    Nadal's #'s would be higher if he hadn't missed so much time - he'd certainly be above 800, but still wouldn't have the matches per yr that Fed has.***

    The only "IF" I use on a regular basis is "if Monica Seles hadn't been stabbed...!" The rest is totally under the player's control; even injury! As I've been saying, Nadal puts those miles on himself through defensive play that could be overcome w/ a more offensive mindset! Even Borg pushed himself to attack the net more as he matured; hense his winning 5 str. Wimbys! Nole is pushing himself more and we see the results as of '11! I'm so proud of him even though I don't particularly care for that type of play; but he makes it entertaining and fun on occasion! I'm watching him destroy Ferrer at this year's AO and it's great to see; and funny(the pinpoint dropshots are killers)! Last night I brought out Martina in '83 & '84 USO finals vs Evert and '87 over Graf! The contrast in style makes it "must see tv" for me just to keep my interest!

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  29. ***Objectively speaking, Mac was not half the player he was in '88. Also to put in Sampras, Agassi and Courier would be exaggerating their level as they didn't even come close to being great until 2 years later. I agree winning 3 majors a year deserves to be in the mix just for that alone, but a lot of those players you mentioned were not anywhere near their best level back then.***

    Terribly overrated for the time! Agassi made a name for himself more with what he was wearing! Sampras was anonymous besides his upsetting Wilander in the 2nd round of the USO in '89! Poor Matts was a mere shell of himself the following season winning 3 of 4 majors and the YEC going through Lendl at the height of his powers! I didn't know of Courier until upset his upset of Agassi in FO final in '91! Chang had been the only one to break through winning his lone slam; '89 FO over Edberg! The prominent men around that time for the US was still McEnroe and Connors with a sprinkling of 2nd tier players like Scott Davis, Tim Mayotte, Brad Gilbert, and maybe Mal Washington!

    ***Nadal's gonna be world #1 again! - He's #1 already; at least he's heading in that direction. I have a feeling now that he is going to do it. According to many and even some top players like Nole, he's playing the best tennis this year. So if he wins the USO, he, and not the great "dunblane warrior" will be the best player on the planet.***

    The faster the rise, the harder the fall I always say! If Nadal practically kills himself this year, next year will be a disaster; mark my words! He can't seem to have 2 great years in succession! Even Nole has fallen considerably from his 2011, losing to players he shouldn't! It'll happen to Rafa as well; so go ahead and "push, push, push!" He'll have a ton of points to defend, but of course he won't go to those smaller events that helped him early on!

    ***Nadal will probably get back to #1 - At some point, maybe briefly, Murray might snatch the #1 slot. But over the next 3 years, Djokovic will likely spend more time at #1 than anyone else.
    ---

    Next 3 years? So you think he'll have a shot at 29 going on 30? Though I think this may be the case over the next year after that, it will get much harder for him since, historically, there are few players to reach #1 at 29+ years of age. History is not on his side, esp. if he is only winning 1 major a year.
    ---

    I said Djokovic will spend more time at #1 over a 3 year period than anyone else, not Nadal, but I think Rafa will get back to #1 for a while; probably after the AO where he will pick up a bunch of points.***

    Well that makes more sense than 3 straight years! Rafa's never been able to have 2 or 3 great years in a row, usually falling by the "wayside" for a while after a season like this one! Only time will tell, but I can't imagine him being better off than he would be if a lot younger! That won't make any sense! Players are working him and not just rolling over!

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  30. ***Just finished watching '78 USO with Evert vs Shriver. I was amazed at the play of Shriver. She made it to the final not dropping a set and by beating #1 Navratalova. In the final she gave Chrissie everything she could ask for (7-5 6-4). Shriver had a very good 1st serve and was great at the net. ...Pam was only 16 yrs old. I know Pam was a great doubles champion, but I can't see why w/ the way she played, didn't she make a bigger impact in singles.
    ---

    Pam was known for being a headcase back then; the way Clijsters and Mauresmo were early on. They were able to overcome their weakness and turned it into a positive. Even though Pam played w/ a mental giant (Martina), she could never get over the hump herself.***

    Pam was still limited by her lack of groundstroking prowess! She was playing out of her mind at the USO that year to beat Navratilova and make the final! It was also the 1st year at Flushing Meadows where the HC's were a bit fast! Like Paul Annacone, both had to win most, if not all of their points at the net by forcing errors! Pam got up to #3, but was never in a position to go higher due to her inability to get by other top players at majors time and time again! Both Martina and Chris personally stopped her, but she's fooling herself when I hear they were the only players to keep her out of other major semi's and finals! That Prince racket did her no favors from the backcourt, forcing her to impart backspin on all her shots, rarely if ever going 'over the ball!' Players like Mandlikova could embarrass her w/ a small portion of her talent! Austin was her chief rival at the same age and level of play! Guess who won 2 USO's btw the 2? I never thought of her being a headcase, but I do remember her telling Martina she would be attending a wedding and couldn't play the FO in '86! Something happened and she was free and actually thought Martina would drop Andrea Temesvári at the last min. (btw they won it)!

    ***Thanks for that assessment Fiero.***

    Unfortunately I'm still cringing over the results of that tourney! This had been the 2nd change of surfaces in the last 4 yrs and they had to move The Open to begin with b/c Forest Hills wasn't safe anymore! A stray bullet coming into the venue prompted the quick exodus to Flushing! It was amazing it opened on time, but as many of the players said from day 1, "a bomb should hit the place!" It's just never been as much a fave major complex; esp. in comparison to the FO and AO compounds! It was all concrete, few if any trees had taken root! It was hot, had fast irregular speeds to the courts, and planes flew overhead every couple minutes! It was just no fun before Dinkins was Mayor and had them shut down that approaching air strip!

    As to the results, being on court most of the time myself, I missed a lot of the matches including BJK with a stiff neck trying to play in gale force winds against Evert! That occurred on thurs. while Martina and Pam were held up until fri.; 2 tie-breaks! On the men's side Borg had injured his thumb and couldn't hold his racket securely, losing it several times after serving to Connors in the final! Once or twice the serve went in, but all Bjorn could do was walk over and pick up his racket as Jimmy got the return back easily with no reply! Don't get me thinking about his loss in '76 final on clay! That just shouldn't have happened; even against Connors! I suppose he was lucky to get there with matches going the limit at times; incl. saving match points against Fillol in the 2nd rd, and going 5 sets to defeat Gottfried and Orantes in succession!

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  31. ***To compare, Novak's was 92% in his great '11 (70-6). Roger bested that 3 times:

    93% in '04 (74-6), 95% in '05 (81-4) and 95% again in '06 (92-5). Its easy to forget just how dominant Roger was from '04-'07.

    1. McEnroe 1984 - 96.47%
    2. Connors 1974 - 95.88%
    3. Federer 2005 - 95.29%
    4. Federer 2006 - 94.85%
    5. Nadal 2013 - 94.64%
    6. Borg 1979 - 93.33%
    t7. Lendl 1986 - 92.50%
    t7. Federer 2004 - 92.50%
    9. Lendl 1985 - 92.31%
    10. Lendl 1982 - 92.17% ***

    It's a lot more likely on the ladies' side! Navralova only had one loss in '83, winning the last 3 majors! She also had just 2 losses in '84, taking 3 majors to have 6 in a row!

    ***I tend to think reaching #1 for any player, year end or not, is a huge accomplishment. Since the computerized system started in '73, Novak is the 25th player to get to #1. In that same time period, there were over 50 different Slam champs.***

    ...When Serena was playing part time and Henin had retired, that played havoc with the rankings! Luckily the men have been able to avoid the situation of late with several top caliber players ready to step in if one begins to slip a little! "Look out Nole!"

    ***...It's all about the Slams, Davis Cup wins, and Olympic glory. Murray doesn't give a damn about the top rank. He knows he's the best player in the game-- at least for a little while-- if he snatches the USO esp. if he guns down Nole in the process.***

    Well that's your opinion! Most people, including commentors on tv think Nadal has surpassed everyone except on the point scale with so many wins and just a couple losses! Andy has trouble on clay and loses to players outside the top more frequently than Nole and Rafa! I say Djokovic is #1 as long as the official ATP rankings says he is! He's nowhere near his '11 level, but he's holding on ok winning 1 major and being a SF and F in the other 2! Andy didn't even play the FO while Nadal was knocked off in the 1st rd of Wimbledon! "Yea' Nole!"

    ***As far as Slams and #1 rankings, here are some #'s for the ATP era only (1973-present):

    #1 players who never won a Slam: One (Marcelo Rios)
    Slam winners who were never #1: I think it's in the 20-22 range
    # of players to finish the year #1: 16
    # of players to win a Grand Slam: 51
    # of players to ever be #1: 25

    The #1 ranking is more impressive than winning a single Slam b/c it's much more rare - about twice as many players have won Slams as have been ranked #1, and more than 3 times as many as have ended the year #1. Now let's add a couple more benchmarks:

    # of players to win..(Open Era; but includ. the entire records of players who won Slams Pre-Open Era)

    1+ Slams: 53
    2+ Slams: 31
    3+ Slams: 19
    4+ Slams: 17
    5+ Slams: 15
    6+ Slams: 15
    7+ Slams: 12
    8+ Slams: 9
    9+ Slams: 5
    10+ Slams: 5
    11+ Slams: 5
    12+ Slams: 3
    13+ Slams: 2
    14+ Slams: 2
    15+ Slams: 1

    That gives us a sense of how rare different levels are. If we include pre-Slam numbers, pro Slams and such, we get much larger numbers, but this gives us a sense of the last 45 years of tennis history.
    ---

    Of course it's more rare since there have been so many dominant players in the game. They tend to hold on to the #1 rank. Basically today there is greater correlation between the slam winners and #1 rank b/c we happen to have 3 extremely dominant players who have tended to win everything else in sight.

    This period is like no other: these 3 are all time greats and very possibly the best in history. Nole is not quite there yet, but he's 1/2 way there. 6 more slams and he too can be considered among the best of the best in history. But clearly you can achieve top ranks w/o winning slams or just 1 slam if these 3 weren't around.***

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  32. ***I grew up ice skating and the dance world and "Dance Moms" portrayed were so familiar to me. ...were trying to get an "Ice Moms" show going which apparently hasn't gotten anywhere b/c the USFS assoc. hasn't been cooperating. They've probably watched this show and don't want skating to look bad.

    Although I suspect the real reason the USFS doesn't want a skating show is that skating moms are way, WAY more crazy and tough. They'd eat the moms on this show for lunch and spit them out. No kidding! You have to be devoted to get your kid up at 5 am and get to the rink. You know what I'm saying? It takes a whole different breed of devoted mom to be able to do that for their kids. Any other skaters out there or former skating moms who agree?***

    I stopped watching figure skating in the 80's; crooked scoring along with less than admirable skaters out there on the ice! I never liked Katarina Witt, Scott Hamilton, or Brian Boitano! Surya brought me back in the 90's, but again, the way she was being treated and talked about made me want to drop it again! USFS assoc. doesn't want their dirty laundry out there! They punished Christine Brennan for a while due to her books on the subject; the behind the scenes exposed that most people outside of the sport wouldn't know about! It seems after they went to the new scoring system, it's still as bad as it ever was with the judges predetermining who should win! It's sad and I haven't watched much at all since the last Olympics in '10! Will Plushenko give it one more go since '14 is in Socchi?

    ***Brown was taken 1st rd of the '56 draft by the Cleveland Browns.[9] He departed as the NFL record holder for both single-season (1,863 in '63) and career rushing (12,312 yds), as well as the all-time leader in rushing TDs (106), total TDs (126), and all-purpose yards (15,549). He was the 1st player ever to reach the 100-rushing-touchdowns milestone, and only a few others have done so since, despite the league's expansion to a 16-game season in 1978 (Brown's first four seasons were only 12 games, and his last 5 were 14 games). Brown's record of scoring 100 TDs in only 93 games stood until LaDainian Tomlinson did it in 89 games during the '06 season. Brown holds the record for total seasons leading the NFL in all-purpose yards (5: 1958–1961, 1964), and is the only rusher in NFL history to average over 100 yards per game for a career. Brown was also a superb receiver out of the backfield, catching 262 passes for 2,499 yards and 20 TDs. Every season he played, Brown was voted into the Pro Bowl, and he left the league in style by scoring 3 TDs in his final Pro Bowl game. Perhaps the most amazing feat is that Brown accomplished these records despite never playing past 29 years of age. Brown's 6 games with at least 4 TDs remains an NFL record. LT and Marshall Faulk both have 5 games with 4 TDs.
    ---

    Brown led the league in rushing a record 8 times. ...The way I heard it was that he wanted to make a movie and some airhead in management ( Art Modell ) didn't want to let him report a little late to training camp so he could finish it....so he retired. For me Brown is #1 ...Gale Sayers #2 ...& The Juice #3. I know Sayers only played 6 seasons so some don't think he could be the best, but I saw The Kansas Comet score 6 TDs in 1 game...in the mud. In his rookie season he averaged 189 yds and 2 TDs per game.***

    I'm no Elway or Denver fan, but Terrell Davis had to be the most complete and powerful runner at the time! If not for migraines, he might have shattered a lot of records, but retired after winning SB for Elway and Shanahan! He was the "real man" on that team! Elway had been floundering for years waiting for a decent running game! That was Karma as far as I was concerned with him causing chaos by refusing to play for the Colts when drafted in '83! Just shows a player like Elway and now Eli Manning can get away with extortion and still own 2 SB rings!

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  33. ***Yes, Shriver was a bit of a choker. Fiero did a great job of summarizing her physical weaknesses, but when the rubber met the road against the top players she had a hard time closing the deal. It's unfortunate. I would have liked to see her get at least one single's slam; esp. at the Open.***

    The violin and harp will have to remain in the cupboard! She had her chances and was fortunate enough to partner up with Martina for 20+ doubles titles! Navratilova implied once that she put up with some of Pam's baggage, but they stayed together for years! They faced off though at the USO, maybe '89 with Matina partnering with Hana Mandlikova while Shriver played with Mary Jo Fernandez! Needless to say Navrailova prevailed with Mandlikova!

    ***During the match they flashed across the screen something about her teaming up w/ Zina Garrison for a title.***

    I didn't see it, but that was Olympic Gold w/ Pam in Seoul at '88 Games! Zina also picked up a bronze in singles IIRC! Martina was permitted to play Fed Cup for 2 countries and win, but Olympic rule is you can only play for new nation if you never played for the old one! The only way it would be permissable is if the US marched in and took over Czechoslovakia before '88 Olympics!

    ***I have to say, while Nadal's year is already phenomenal (given the circumstances), the standard was raised so high by Fed, Djokovic and Rafa himself, that winning 2 slams per year seems "only" great, as opposed to a "year for the ages."***

    This is such an abhorrent era for the men; so few majors up for grabs! Eras either have one great player or no one great and things meandering around with no names like Kriek, Gomez, Edmondson, Johansson, Gaudio, Teacher, and Korda with what we call majors! Luckily that sort of thing didn't happen too often at Wimbledon and the USO eve sith finalist!

    ***Players Who Just "Click" Against Certain Players?

    Federer-Simon: Simon has the type of game that frustrate every tennis player. But, imo, Simon frustrates Federer the most. Just look at the '11 AO and '13 FO. Those are the matches where Federer is winning at first, but suddenly Simon comes back and takes 2 sets. Simon doesn't put pace on his shots so Roger naturally overcooks some of his shots. Simon quickness frustrates Federer too.

    Blake-Nadal: I know Nadal has turned around this matchup, but when Nadal was young, Blake just blasted Nadal's topsin to no end.

    Federer-Blake: Federer just defended Blake's shot with no sweat.***

    A lot of player, esp. in the 2nd and 3rd tier have the abilty, but they often "can't finish!" At Wimbledon, IIRC, Verdasco was running over Murray in the quarters, but I told people, he won't finish it, even with a 2 set to 0 lead! Sure enough he frittered the match away and allowed Murray to move on and take another major! - In a previous era, Borg "owned" a few players, never losing to them once; including Vitas Gerulaitis, Harold Solomon, & Eddie Dibbs!

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  34. ***Tough US Open draw for Andy and Nole.***

    It all balances out eventually! Someone always gets hosed in the majors since everyone should be there; the only miss that mattered was Andy being out at FO this season! That caused Nole to get Rafa in the semi when all the seeds had to move up! "Thanx Ang!" Time is running out on Nole to complete his career slam and circle of Masters wins! All he needs is a FO and Cinn. victory in the next couple years! Anything's possible after poor Roger was helped out so much by Soderling in '09 at the French!

    ***Andy being out at FO this season was a smart move. My guess, Ivan Lendl would have sorted this out before Wimbledon. Someone getting hosed could happen to any of the bigger stars. ...As a Murray fan & winning Slams I'm not bothered about the FO and Murray's not going to lose sleep over it.
    ---

    We need to figure out if Andy tanked both Montreal and Cinci. What is your take on this theory in general Fiero425? what about Sampras?: is he a fool? He has Andy Murray winning the USO title.***

    Sorry, but I wouldn't quote Sampras on much of anything! He was truly one of the dullest champions ever! Even Borg had more to him and he didn't say much! lol! I can imagine anyone tanking these days! People prefer not to go that extra mile and ask for time off! They either show up and lose early or feign an injury and not even bother at all! I dislike to tell you, but no one's more a drama queen than Murray! I think he sometimes physically makes himself hurt when not happy in a match! I don't want to see him grabbing a hamstring or whining about his shoes! That's just not professional! Nole seems to be the biggest class act w/ nothing controversial going on; on court or behind the scenes! You barely knew about dad's illness and grandfather's death! Everything is blown up so much more when it concerns the other players; even Federer when he was top ranked!

    ***Nole's one of the biggest showboats out there. The way he celebrates his win, even the apes would be ashamed of his behaviour. Nadal's rituals are mind boggling and his butt picking can be seen as something disgusting. Federer's arrogance can tick some people really off, but then again, I don't mean to judge people purely based on dislike like you do.***

    The post asked what we thought about Pete's quote on a subject! I declined taking his opinion seriously! My added comment about him being dull had nothing to do with the man's tennis ability! He's just not one I would quote having to deal with many subjects, even tennis! You guys get so bent out of shape! Maybe you should read and interpret what's being said before losing your minds! No offense was meant; esp. since I proclaimed him the GOAT until Roger took over the mantle recently! Now that that has been discussed, he's dropping fast due to a lack of FO titles! Even Nadal may supplant him in the rankings one day and I find that the most disturbing since I've never been a fan of that kind of "ugly tennis!" I also get aggravated with the stalling/toweling off, butt pickin', invoking of "Vamos'," and challenging of calls where he's so wrong he should lose 2 challenges!

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  35. ***Oldest in Top 5
    1. Rod Laver '74 (36y,4m)
    2. Jimmy Connors '87 (35y,3m)
    3. Andre Agassi '03 (33y,7m)
    4. Arthur Ashe '75 (32y,5m)
    5. Roger Federer '13 (32y,0m)

    Note that Roger is no longer in the top 5, so unless he gets back there this is the highest he'll go.

    Also, on a side note, David Ferrer (31y,4m) is just behind Lendl (31y,9m) for #7 on this list, and just ahead of McEnroe, Newcombe, and Nastase.

    Oldest in Top 10
    1. Ken Rosewall '75 (41y,1m)
    2. Rod Laver '75 (37y,4m)
    3. Jimmy Connors '89 (36y,7m)
    4. Arthur Ashe '79 (36y,5m)
    5. Andre Agassi '05 (35y,7m)
    6. Ivan Lendl '92 (32y,9m)
    7. Roger Federer '13 (32y,0m) - ongoing

    Roger has a ways to go considering the remarkable Ken Rosewall, who was the only player to be in the top 50 past the age of 40 (Connors was age 39y,3m when he dropped out of the top 50; he was in the top 100 after 40 - Rosewall and Connors being the only two in ATP history).

    Roger has a good chance of passing Lendl, but it might be hard to get into the top 5 - he'd have to be in the top 10 in April of '17! To put Rosewall in context. For Roger to pass him as the oldest player in ATP history and to be in the top 10, Roger would have to be there in Oct '22 - 9 years from now!***

    ...and with no lives! They had nothing better to do but hang on and continue to play tennis on the tour! Reminds me of football players in their mid to late 30's getting bashed in the head, sunday after sunday, only to wonder why they're so broken down! I was beginning to feel the same about Navratilova, but she was winning until her last days; in doubles anyway, taking the '06 USO MD title with Paez! They of course are freaks of nature and you can't expect many to sustain that level so late in life! Roger won't be around for much longer, so we better appreciate him for now! Baseliners like Nole, Rafa, and Andy won't last like Lendl who wasn't pushed as hard as these guys are now! They're already breaking down and it's hard to watch! They work so hard to win a single match!

    ***I think your point about '02 required a bit of examination! It was great seeing the crocked 'Dre give Federer the shivers in '04 & '05. At his peak, he didn't quite do that to Pete in NY, but then Pete wasn't one to take much guff from Agassi.***

    Not to undermine Agassi in the least, but the so called "rivalry" was so overblown! Agassi got Pete at a couple majors; 1 FO and AO '95 where he was dealing with Gullikson's collapse a few days before!

    Sampras barely made the final actually "breaking down" in his match against Courier in the semi! Never saw anything like that before; someone overcome with grief on court! Jim offerred to "play the match the next day;" on court when the tears were flowing! As for the rest of the matches with Agassi, they were jokes w/ Sampras winning most of them including that blowout at '90 USO final! They even tried to feature a final on monday night like the olds day back in mid 70's! I think it must have been Indian Well in '95! Pete beat him in straight sets while the commentators desperately tried to make it seem like this was a contest! I was embarrassed for Stolle, Drysdale, and Carillo acting as if Andre had a chance! Sampras' running forehand caught Agassi just watching the ball w/o even a swing at it at times!

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  36. ***What kind of FOOL would buy Bill O'Reilly books! - They're good books. Read 'em sometime. You'll see. Killing Lincoln was one of the most interesting non-fictions I've ever read.***

    Yeah, Im very jealous of the 1000 or more factual errors found in his books! lol! He's such a loser and a louse! No one's more full of shit than this guy trying to play the impartial arbitor of facts! He's a liar and a bigot!

    ***Is he a 'real' bigot or is that just a word that's bandied about that means 'somebody you don't agree with'--IE: the new definition of 'fascist'; Is it like Don Imus's "nappy haired hoes' comment? What lies did he tell? And are they REAL factual errors or are they on the order of 'the nation reviews Gunter Lewy's book' & raises a stink about how he doesn't 'reverently' refer to the VC/NVA as the 'national liberation front'?***

    He's a tool b/c he likes to speak about things he has no idea what he's talking about! I find it terribly offensive when some narrow-minded twit like him tries to besmirch an entire race by saying "it's the breakdown of the family, with a lack of a fathers that is to blame for Black delinquencey and incarceration! He tar and feathers all Black people with that brush everyday and does it with impunity!

    Yesterday he railed about no Republicans were invited to the MLK ceremony which was a colossol lie! He may have apologized for it later, but he did it purposefully just to try and make the Dems and the President look bad! He does that sort of thing all the time and makes excuses for erroneous reporting! I've been watching this dick since '97, and he get worst every year! He's a despicable human being that loves to point out other people's faults, but rarely has any solutions! The ones he has are always ludicrous and are embarrassing to all concerned!

    I could go on, but if you really want to see how low he can go, check out a book or disc out there that points out all his faults; "Outfoxed" was good! When he dares to have someone on to challenge him, he won't let them speak and fully explain themselves usually saying "you're not answering the question!" Laura Ingraham is a perfect guest host; just as obnoxious and tactless with little if any class! Both would rather listen to the sound of their own voices than actually get educated on a subject! Bill can't compete with John Stewart and David Letterman b/c they have his number! He usually ends up looking like the fool we all know him to be!

    ***I don't badmouth Olbie, Maddow, or Schultz on MSNBC b/c I don't watch them. I can't comment what I don't know about. You tell me all sorts of crap about B.O'R., but you don't tell me anything you've seen or heard him say. I noticed on another blog I lurk on that O'Reilly did some sort of 'retraction' for something he said RE: the MLK 50 anniversary march, but I have no idea what it was.***

    You're wrong about everything, including Olbermann being on MSNBC! He went to Current for a while before being fired, now back on ESPN! DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING you're whining about or are you purposefully just being that stupid? B O'R lied about Rep. not being invited; don't you read?

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  37. ***I have watched Hingis service motion and I see areas for improvement. Also, I think someone needs to get her to alter her service grip like Rafa did prior to the '10 USO.***

    That's easy to say, but Melanie and Martina decided a long time ago they were not going to put her in danger of having arm or back problems trying to develop a heavier or more powerful serve! I don't blame them; hense players like Jaeger and Austin hobbling around early in life! She did quite well for herself and has nothing to be embarrassed about maximizing her talent to the last! She's a confirmed HOF'r with more titles than most of the people saying "she needs to do something with that serve!"

    ***Did anyone see Serena on Letterman last night? He asked her about playing Murray and she said she would never do it, and even asked him [meaning Andy] not to talk about it anymore. End of story.***

    I didn't see it, but it finally registered in her head that women can't compete equally to men in singles! It's not being sexist to say that's the stupidest thing to even think, no matter how hard they hit the ball! Men just have too much power and control over the ball! If some male college player really tried, he could blitz the top woman pros without losing not only a game, but single points as well! Back in my hayday as a high schooler, I still had no trouble winning against college females who were very good! It just wasn't a contest! I still remember Evert commenting years ago that she couldn't beat her brother and he went nowhere with his tennis! I hope this topic doesn't come up again! I get so frustrated with it for some reason! I understand the naivette and stupidity of Venus and Serena back when they were kids where Braashe taught them a lesson they'll never forget coming onto the court hungover, unshaven, smoking a cigarette and "smoked" them both back to back!

    ***I will have to check, but I have a hard time believing Connors and Borg only played 20 times. At any rate, Borg turned the tide against Connors starting with the Pepsi Grand Slam in Boca Raton in early '79--from that point forward (which coincided with Jimbo's marriage to Patti McGuire and falling to #3) Borg won 9 or 10 straight against Connors.***

    Those were great events back then before tennis exploded to what it is today; the Pepsi Grand Slam of Tennis! WOW! That was about the time Borg started owning Connors, even though they competed well up to that point! It was on clay, so that helped Borg! After his loss to Connors at the '76 USO final in Forest Hills, he may not have lost a set on that surface again! IIRC, Jimmy was shocked by Bjorn in their 1st match indoors, then won 7 straight before the Swede evened it out; esp. at Wimbledon several times in semis and finals!

    ***Stan is keeping equal pace with Richie for the last spot at the YEC. If only they could both play there, although I prefer Stan's power from both wings over Gasquet's game. Despite what a lot of people are saying here, I really enjoyed the USO semi vs Andy. It was quite suspenseful as it was a big moment for Wawrinka to reach his first SF. And I love how he can just blow someone off the court.***

    I love a good blowout; esp. when a fave of mines! Djokovic's dismantling of Ferrer at the the AO this past winter was great! No matter what David did, Nole countered it brilliantly and made him look like an amateur! This Murray match wasn't as close as the score with Stan missing so many opportunities to break Andy! I thought he was going to blow it for a bit; sorta like Verdasco with a 2 set lead at Wimbledon! Some players just can't finish, but Wawrinka certainly proved me wrong!

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  38. ***Comparatively speaking IMO, Murray has a much more negative attitude than other players. Can't stand the whining and can't stand the excessive swearing. In all seriousness why do you not just turn him off?***

    I do unless he's getting blown out by a player! Only Nadal and Murray aggravate me as much w/ the ugly way they play the game! Andy's ranting makes no sense; not giving his opponent any credit for having a good play! It's as if he doesn't think he should lose a point; so offensive to me! The whinging and screaming is just over the top; normally at his own camp!

    ***I love tennis and I love watching it. My gripes are minor things that in my perfect world, I could do w/o. I thought this was intended to be somewhat of a "fun, not too serious" thread.***

    There was a time I'd never miss a match; esp. with several vcr's attached to all my tv's, but I purposely skip watching a lot of it now! I'm so tired of the length of matches; extended by excessive toweling off, questioning of calls that are so wrong they should be penalized, and of course a lot of bouncing of the ball before a serve! ...Rafa Nadal! When he gets into a contest with Nole, they have sets that last well over an hr which is obscene! Almost 6 hrs for their Aussie contest last year! Back in the day, Martina only toweled off at changeovers, now with Sharapova and Azarenka, it's even after an ace! The officials really need to speed up play! Don't get me started on all the grunting, squealing, and the like! I thought they were supposed to regulate that too; only getting worse! It could be a dropshot and you would think they're being stabbed in the chest!

    ***I hear what you are saying. I have 2 DVD-Rs with each connected to a DVD recorder. Yes, I am insane. I guess watching as much tennis as I do, there's no doubt the length of matches is a factor.
    Plus growing up with Borg, then Fed, who wasted no time, appeared like ads in fashion mag, and were as fair as they came; the standard is high. I can only be disappointed.***

    Borg was always immaculate wearing Fila; loved the stuff, but too expensive! Even back in the 70's, a warmup cost more than a 3 piece suit! I may have had one outfit out of my extensive collection of tennis clothes; the shorts were almost a $100 on sale! Back then I had more tenniswear than regular clothes since I played and taught almost everyday! Federer has been taking it to an extreme coming out on court with his logo, attributing wins w/ the champ. at hand! Talk about ego-driven!

    ***The Czechs are just starting their doubs final on Ashe. Losing last night was the best thing for Serena this year.***

    So you're saying a younger Serena can't handle what Martina was doing for years in every major closing in on 40? Wow; I'm losing so much respect for her and her fans! Excuses, excuses! People keep talking about her being a future GOAT and I'm just not seeing it! I guess Navratilova can explain her 50% record in major finals due to her playing doubles and mixed doubles time and time again! I know Navratilova's record backwards and forward; 167 singles titles with 177 doubles! You can add both Serena and Venus' work and they still fall short!

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  39. ***Here's my GOAT candidates in my current order - I view this as a ratio not some GOAT tournament. Graf's dominance over her contemporaries was greater or less great than Court was dominant over hers rather than a simplistic and silly question of whether Graf's game would dominate Lenglens.

    1.Graf
    2.Wills
    3.Navratilova
    4 Evert
    5 court
    6 Lenglen
    7 Connolly
    8 Serena

    I value consistency, longevity and as much as peak play. They have to compete well on all surface, against all kinds of styles, and in all kinds of conditions. Its not whether they have demons to conquer, or limitations of tactics/strokes, it's about how well they beat those limitations, defend their weaknesses and prevail against the hardships, and exploit those of opponents throughout their career.

    I look at the whole career from first match to last. If they walked on the court to compete and fans paid to watch, it counts, not just their dominant years. Fans were in the stands when they were on their way up, and on their way down so it is part of their legacy.***

    Martina played 20 years of singles and 30 years of doubles winning everything in sight; just saying! No one's gonna get near 167 singles and 177 doubles titles, 9 Wimbledons, and winning both singles, doubles, and mixed doubles as consistantly as she did over her very long career!

    ***We value and weigh different attributes. First obviously you do not recognise doubles in a separate category. If you include both, everything looks different and King looks better than Graf and Louise Brough and Margaret Dupont is better than Evert. This actually is a two woman race with Court and Martina's only competitor for GOAT. If you accept the premise behind it, I agree.

    Martina is the 'hostest with the mostest' but that says nothing about the # of losses she incurred to get those #'s. Her career win/loss % is below Court's, Evert's, and Graf's and that is b/c she was a bit of a late bloomer with inconsistent results before '82 and after '89 and a very long career. She got into 2 finals of majors in '75, then sort of disappeared. Won Wimbledon in '78 & '79, then lost her way for 2 yrs. Martina was a serious danger almost the whole time, with wins over every #1 from '76 through 2000, but that does not mean she was a serious contender for most majors, and there were a hell of a lot of Rd 16 losses to call her highly consistent.

    I agree that her peak play was better by any measure than Evert and that H to H matters. I also note that Martina beat her for the '84 RG title, but Evert did not recipricate at Wimbledon, so I put Martina above. IMO, Recognizing the roll of fate in these #'s and how majors changed surfaces to reward 1 or the other, still Evert was a bit to top heavy on the slow courts and Martina was too top heavy on the fast ones to beat Graf or Wills. Ten of Evert's majors were on clay, 5 on grass, 3 on hard courts. 12 of Martina's were on grass, 2 on clay, and 4 on hard courts. Graf was equally effective on grass and clay with tons of hardware on the medium speed hard courts. Surface speed really meant absolutely nothing to Graf.***

    From '84, I never tire of watching Martina dismantle Evert on her beloved clay! I think it was april where Martina was points from losing to Mandlikova at the WTA championship in SC, but somehow won that semi and then murdered Evert in the final 2 and 0! In June at the FO, Evert should have been the fave, but Navratilova toyed with her 3 and 1, breaking her serve at love all 4 times in the 2nd set and gifted her the 1 game after being up 40-0! Chris redeemed herself in '85 & '86 taking 2 tough 3 setters in Paris I still can't watch! It's still the best rivalry in sports as far as I'm concerned; Chris winning early, maybe 20+ matches to 7, then Martina winning 14 straight over 2 years, equaling each other out near the end with Evert taking 1 on HC at AO in '88! They played 80 times with Martina barely ahead 43 to 37!

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  40. ***Why are you comparing Serena w/ Martina anyway? Two different athletes that played in 2 different eras. Martina's records likely will never be broken (esp. her total titles, 20 Slam Doubs crowns, etc). It's really pointless to compare Venus/Serena w/ Martina.

    Fiero. You can't lose what you don't have. Apparently, you never had any respect for Serena or her game. You constantly remark she waited too long to get serious about her legacy and it's too late for her. Why do you care? It's not your life. Her taking all these years to realize her greatness isn't going to change your life one iota, right?***

    I do care b/c there are so many that try to place both Serena and Venus above Martina! Like you said, her records will never be touched, but it happens again and again, people making comments that try to deminish Navratilova's accomplishments! I just have to interject and point out where players are lacking in comparison to the "real GOAT!" It is pointless to compare them, true enough, but I can't tell you how many people believe a target would be on Martina's head that Serena would take her out so easily which is total BS! Thinking of Serena as the best baseliner is even debatable since she has only 2 FO's with a span of 10 yrs btw them!

    ***No one on this forum is trying to place Serena above Martina even if she somehow reaches 18 major titles. There are people in the media who have their own view and might try to do that, but they're the media and it's their job to mix it up. Martina has often said she wonders how she would have done against Serena's power in her prime. It's a matchup that we will never see and I personally would have liked to.
    ---

    The fact that Seles was stabbed changed absolutely nothing with respect to tournaments being played, trophies being awarded, and checks being cashed that her being seriously injured or absent in any other fashion would change. No one told the players or the fans or the press that they were watching or performing for some second tier result beforehand. So if Sanchez, Novotna, or Graf worked and trained and fought for a RG title, we have no right to put an asterisk on it later.***

    Sorry, but just glancing at this post trying to equate a stabbing with MONO makes no sense! Acquiring a disease and some nut coming out of the stands to assault a little girl isn't comparable; and I feel sorry for people who truly believe that! That threw everything out of whack artificially since we know how much Seles dominated on clay at least! I can't tell you how disappointed that makes me to see again and again stated so cavalierly! I never even cared for the game of Seles, but I would have to be insane to think what happened to her didn't affect that era! Gawd, this makes my hand shake!

    ***Seles probably would have won more majors IF she hadn't been stabbed, but she got just the one and all we can go from is what actually happened, not what might have happened. Otherwise we could rewrite history for pretty much everybody on the planet.

    Seles having Graf's # is an urban myth when you look at the H2H before, during, and after Seles' peak. People keep trotting it out as if saying it over and over again will make it so. She dominated the field, but never dominated Graf. When Hingis was #1, Graf even led the H2H and won the majority of matches.***

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  41. ***The Cycle on FNN - What do they think of the latest job's numbers?***

    It'll never be enough for those losers on Fox News! It doesn't matter that in the waning years of W, the country was losing 650,000 to 750,000 jobs a month! All they can do is talk about how sluggish this recovery has been! They don't bother bringing up the foot-dragging of the Republican House who hasn't passed one job's bill and refuses to invest in infrastructure which would put 2 Million people to work tomorrow! They'd sooner the country "go under" than have Obama get credit for anything good that happens! It's our own fault sending these same noodniks back to DC every 2 years!

    ***Has there ever been an episode on "L & O: SVU" where the villian was clearly and unambigously a liberal? I don't want to appear mean or ungrateful, but that is a yes or no question although identifying the episode and a brief description would be great as well.***

    Overall liberals aren't nuts like conservatives and Republicans! They don't bomb abortion clinics or put Doctors and their families on "hit list" for the masses to shoot or harrass them! Progressives also don't rail about government intrusion only to try and legislate something as personal as medical procedures! If you look at it that way, there's the reason you don't have liberals acting like hypocritical animals! I could go on, but you get the idea! Years ago I could have voted for a Republican if he was a good candidate, but they follow each other like lemmings now and I can't be bothered with that type of intransigence! Of late, Republicans and conservatives have been on a jihad against women, gays, immigrants, and Blacks! The evidence is all over the freakin' news! See, not too political!

    ***I can offhandedly think of at least two dozen cases where the villain would be considered to be a liberal. You didn't want to discuss politics, but wasn't that the point? Didn't you have a certain conservative or liberal bias when you asked the question?***

    I'm sure progressives and liberals commit crimes, but they are hypocrites trying to change people to a certain way of thinking about issues only to be busted doing the exact opposite! Plenty of politicians have been caught up in sex scandals, but conservatives and Republicans are the ones using it as a eapon, being caught in men's bathrooms, flirting with Congressional pages, and hiring hookers! Such hypocrisy can't be overlooked!

    ***I was glad the UK stepped away after the gov't was defeated on the vote in parliament. It's pretty obvious there were chemical attacks, but it makes no sense at this stage for it to have been Assad. The Syrian gov't has made advances in the last couple of months, so why on Earth would he use them now? My guess it's probably a false flag engineered to get the west more directly involved rather than just fighting via proxies. I tend to agree with this.***

    I'd love to support my President, but w/o agreements from the surrounding countries, it makes no sense for us to go it alone! I have all the sympathy in the world for those people over there, but this has been going on for decades! Shelling the country will only make us more responsible for innocent lives lost! I say we have to take a pass and just suffer the consequences of past engagements that always seem to escalate past what was intended! Bush ruined it for the next decade or so lying about Iraq which everyone knew would be a disaster! Over 10 years later we're still paying the price; so much for gratitude, roses, and peace being the norm over there! No wonder these people HATE OUR guts! I don't blame them either! Obama has given us too much credit w/o explaining exactly what he wants us to do! It's a crying shame too!

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  42. ***...Withdrawing from Shanghai and Paris would essentially be giving up Roger's top 8 seeding and I just don't see him wanting to skip out on the WTF. After the yearender, he'll have 2 months until the AO, or a bit less before the "warm-up" ATP 250's like Qatar. My guess is that he'll decide what to do based upon how he fairs the rest of the season. Let us not forget that before his loss to Robredo, he was looking pretty good - from his loss to Rafa in the previous tourney through the 3R at the USO. In other words, there was some positive movement forward from his poor summer. The Robredo loss was very disappointing, but I don't think it's a season or career ender.***

    No one's a bigger Federer fan here, but time marches on! It's getting ugly out there! Roger can have his good days, but they're becoming fewer and far btw unfortunately! I'll be rather sad when he leaves the scene, but sooner or later, we'll have to let him go! So many come up with scenerios that will sustain him, but it's becoming more fantasy than reality! His last great run got him a Wimbledon title and the #1 ranking for a time; that's it I think! He's struggling just to make it to the later rounds now! I believe Rafa promised to play the SWISS to put that final nail in his coffin! If Roger doesn't have a good run indoors before the WTF, will you begin to say the same; "it's time to go?"

    ***Some say he has 1 or 2 more majors in him! Another Slam for Roger is not likely IMO. It is what it is; Nadal, Andy, and Nole are still young and they are also trying to improve. I can see a possible deep run at Wimbledon, but that is about it. Why is he so reluctant to change a failing formula?***

    What do you mean? Roger's been revising his schedule and training for quite a while now; hense his longevity! His only fault that I can see and tell people most definitively is his reasoning behind playing the FO again and again! That made no sense to me; esp. these last several years! If he couldn't win it in his prime, how does he think he's going to fare as an old man?

    ***Looking at his #'s, '09 could certainly be argued as being beyond his prime ('05-'07), yet that's the year he won it. You simply never know. The draw could open up again next year and he could win it a 2nd time. It's not outside the realm of possibilities.***

    The draw can open up all he wants, but I just can't see it happening on clay! You saw how he fared in smaller events last summer; was embarrassing regardless if he was testing a new racket or not! He's slowing down and his shot selection isn't doing him any good either! I've been saying for years, if he wants to win, he has to attack the net more and cut off some of those floating balls! He thinks he can sit back behind the baseline and rally with these kids and he lost to players I don't even know!

    ***I wonder what Federer is doing differently now compared to late 2011. Federer won 26 matches in a row from Sept.'11-Jan.'12 (Nadal broke that streak, at the AO).***

    It's called "getting old!" I'm as much a Fed fan as anyone, but he can't last forever! He very well may win another major, but that run that took him back to #1 isn't happening again! It's all downhill for him now; sorry! That's just the way it is; and will continue to be for athletes no matter how well they take care of themselves!

    ***I'm sure there are just as many people who feel the same way about your hero so don't worry. Anyway, on the subject of this thread, I think Fed will get his mojo back and finish with 23 slams.***

    Six more huh? We'll see about that!

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  43. ***"Law & Order: SVU" Episodes based on real life cases and situations***

    The thing is most of the episodes have elements of real life; at times commiting 2 stories in one episode! S12's "Locum" started out having to do with an adopted little girl running away, but then turned into a real life story where a kidnapped kid was held for 18 yrs in a backyard! Police even investigated a couple times! In the episode, she was kept in the woods in upstate NY and was sorta married to her captor! "Slaves" related to a true story where a woman was held captive for years in a box underneath a bed! She was not permitted to even make a sound! I could go on, but most of these episodes have elements of real life if you read the papers and surf the net for the info!

    ***The S1 ep, "Uncivilized", comes from the Leopold and Loeb case.
    The S1 finale, "Slaves", was based on Cameron Hooker who abducted Carol Smith and proceeded to torture and use her as a sex slave for 7 yrs.

    The S2 ep, "Baby Killer", was based on the Kayla Rolland case.
    The S3's finale, "Silence", dealt with allegations of sexual abuse performed by Catholic clergymen.
    The S4 premiere, "Chameleon," deals with a prostitute who repeatedly murders her clients and claims it was self-defense every time. This is based on the real-life story of Aileen Wuornos.

    In the S4 ep, "Angels" the plot of young Latin boys being taken from their foreign homes and raped by their kidnapper is quite similar to the case of Michael Skult in Ark.

    The S4 ep, "Damaged", shares several similarities to the case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, a husband and wife duo who raped and murdered several teenage girls in the late '80s and early 90's. Similarities include; the female involved drugging her own underage sister to be raped by herself and bf, all while taping the crime; a plea bargain hastily made to the female that is undermined when later evidence, namely video tapes, shows that the female was a willing accomplice, not a compliant victim; and the male claiming that the female was responsible for all the murders. The S6 ep, "Pure" with guest star Martin Short also had similarities with this case.

    The S4 ep, "Appearances", has superficial similarities to the JonBenét Ramsey case as it questions the motives of parents who put their young daughters in beauty pageants. The parents are quickly cleared of any charges, though.

    The S4 ep, "Pandora", has similarities to the Operation Avalanche investigation. In this ep, an investigation into a woman's murder leads SVU detectives to a wealthy suburban couple who are found to be operating a global system for processing credit card payments used to access child pornography websites.

    Another S4 ep, "Perfect", is loosely based on 2 unrelated events; the scandal surrounding the mysterious death of Lisa McPherson and the abduction of Elizabeth Smart.

    The S5 ep, "Serendipity" is based on the story of John Schneeberger, who put a tube of his patient's blood in his arm to fool the Kipling, Saskatchewan police.

    The S5 ep, "Hate" is based on accounts of anti-Arab reprisals following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.
    The S5 ep, "Sick", is a clear reference to the allegations of pedophilia against Michael Jackson, & the questionable credibility of some of the accusers. In the ep, a wealthy, eccentric celebrity comes under scrutiny for his bizarre practice of inviting little children over to his child-like mansion.

    The S5 ep, "Mean" about the murder of a teenage girl by her so-called clique of friends due to the jealousy of the leader was loosely based on the '92 case of Shanda Sharer in Ill. (see Melinda Loveless) and a similar case in CA in '89.

    The S5 ep, "Control" which was also the 100th ep of the show is based on the John Jamelske kidnappings in DeWitt, NY.***

    (cont.,)

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  44. ***The S6 ep, "Charisma" is partially based on David Koresh and the Waco Siege of the Branch Davidians.
    The S6 ep, "Scavenger" is about a long-unsolved cases of rapes and murders by a serial killer known only by the moniker "RDK", for "rape, dismember, kill". An actual serial killer from the 70's was known as "BTK" for "bind, torture, kill", and his crime streak of almost 30 yrs went unsolved until '05.

    The S6 ep, "Identity," about brother-sister twins who are actually identical male twins who had attempted sexual reassignment and bizarre therapy sessions to create the gender reassignment is based on the "John/Joan" case of Brian and David Reimer.

    S6's ep, "Game", features a popular, violent video game that is blamed for inspiring the hit-and-run murder of a prostitute. The game featured and the lawsuit following it closely resemble the video game franchise Grand Theft Auto, which has been blamed for several violent crimes committed by young game players.

    The S6 ep, "Pure", features a wife who lures virgin girls into a dangerous situation so they can be raped by her husband. The details are almost exactly the same as the real-life case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka.

    The S6 finale, "Goliath", deals with soldiers who return from a post in Afghanistan experiencing long-term side-effects from a fictional drug called "Quiniam" that soldiers were forced to take. This paralleled real-life allegations that the Lariam being given to soldiers in Afghanistan could cause psychosis and suicidal thoughts in some soldiers.

    The S7 ep, "Name", was based on the '57 case of The Boy in the Box which is still unsolved.
    The S7 ep, "Starved" took several plot details from the Terri Schiavo case.
    The S7 ep, "Storm" had the search for a child molestor who had taken 3 girls from post-Katrina New Orleans, touching on the reports of missing molestors in the wake of the storm. It turns out he was also involved in the theft of anthrax from a gov't lab in NO, a reporter taking info on the story from Olivia and publishing it. When he refused to name his source, he went to jail in a nod to the Judith Miller case.

    The S7 ep, "Gone" is based on the Natalee Holloway case.
    The S7 ep, "Class" is based on the cheating scandal of Elizabeth Paige Laurie.
    The S7 ep, "Fault" is based on the case of Joseph E. Duncan III who abducted Dylan and Shasta Groene after murdering the rest of their family.

    The S7 ep, "Web", about a teenaged boy who takes erotic pictures of himself and posts them on self-created Internet pay sites to get money from internet pedophile subscribers is based loosely on the story of Justin Berry.

    The S7 finale, "Influence" is based on the controversy regarding actor Tom Cruise and his views on psychiatry, with the perpetrator having refused to take her medication b/c of a rock star's statements regarding the evils of psychiatric medication, leading to tragic results.

    The S8 premiere, "Informed" about a young woman involved with an eco-terrorism cell notes several real examples of eco-terrorism, incl. the '01 arson of several new homes under construction on Long Island, the '03 arson of a Hummer dealership in CA, and the death threats against animal testing labs such as Huntingdon Life Sciences. In addition, a suspect is arrested at a protest against a manufacturer of genetically modified food. The ep also notes that eco-terrorism is the FBI's top domestic terrorism threat; in '05, an FBI official made a statement exactly to that effect.

    S8 ep, "Uncle" with Jerry Lewis ends similarily to the Andrew Goldstein case where a homeless man pushes someone to their death on the subway tracks.***

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  45. ***Roger Federer: Can You Predict His Future - Shanghai, Basel, Paris; (WTF?)***

    I warned you guys, but it had to happen sooner or later! Roger's losin' it and there's not a lot he can do but regroup for next season; if there is a next season! It's only going to start getting harder and harder just to stay in a tourney; eso. if on clay! Why he continues that grueling schedule on dirt, I'll never understand! Even Lendl skipped FO a couple times late in his career! Roger has the record for consecutive majors! It might be time to just let AO and FO alone! It just isn't worth it! If he feels like making that trip to Australia, fine, but the French Open isn't feasible anymore!

    ***I'll LMAO if Fed gets his form back for indoor season and dishes out another lopsided win against Nadal at the WTF, 'cos hey, he's old and years past his prime and your guy is the undisputed king who is going for global domination as you say.***

    I wouldn't mind if it did happen, but I've seen this before! W/ Navratilova, there was a time she was thought "done!" I'd say tech. it was '87 even though she won Wimbledon and the USO! Up to that Wimbledon, she lost final after final, even with a lead like at Eastborne; 5-1 in the 1st set, only to lose the match in straights! It was the strangest thing to hear about since we didn't get these odd matches on tv back then! She won a Wimbledon in '90 and was pretty much written off, only sporadically showing brilliance in the odd matches against Seles or Graf! In '91 after losing a Wimbledon 1/4 to Jennifer Capriati, she relegated herself to WTT that summer, not even playing a warmup event before the USO!

    Like Roger, Martina's ranking started to drop, at #5 in the world, but seeded only #6 at the USO! She looked a little shakey initially in her first few matches barely squeaking by Manuela Meleeva who had beaten her the year before in 3 sets! Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario promised to be no pushover in the quarters and was leading by a set and break, but allowed Martina to win TB in the 2nd and ran away w/ the 3rd! Graf was her next match and most people thought this was a foregone concluded match allowing another Seles v Graf match in the final! It didn't happen, Martina summoning up one more effort actually controling the match putting Steffi on the defensive with her "chip and charge" tactic! She was even rolling over her backhand in that match winning it 7-6,6-7, 6-4! Seles finished her off in the final 7-6, 6-1 w/ Martina finally running out of gas!

    I just see so many parallels with Fed! Both are just hanging around with no real hope of reclaiming past glories! I just hope Roger doesn't try to just hang around lurking other than taking another major! Martina played one more Wimbedon final in '94 with a ton of upsets of top players including Steffi in the 1st round to Lori McNeil! Will that happen to Fed? One last major final for Navratilova, only to be blown off the court by none other than Conchita Martinez! She just didn't have the mph on her 1st serve and it was dispatched a # of times w/ simple angles! I don't want to see Roger go out like that too!

    ***Sharapova fired Connors after just 1 day. She told him to beat it. What is going on with Connors? Is he washed up?***

    Connors was technically washed up before he retired from the tour! He was just hanging on like a ghost with obviously no life to go to afterwards! So sad to see this grizzled old guy trying to hang with kids closing in on 40! Who did he think he was, Ken Rosewall? lol! He became so desperate to become relevant, he had to write that stupid book exposing personal stuff about Evert; and I never even cared for! It was just low and very inconsiderate of him! What an idiot!

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  46. ***Rafa by making the final at Beijing would take over #1 if I'm not mistaken. Since barring injury he'll probably play both Masters and the ATP YEC, he could actually open up a 2000 point lead before the AO even if Nole wins the ATP again.***

    Besides Rafa not having any points to defend, Nole has a ton, incl. the WTF! He still hasn't won anything since Monte Carlo in April! When was the last time he went that long without a victory? Now he could use that "weak and stupid" idea of Rafa's; a 2 year ranking! Funny how a player who takes off can benefit so much from not playing the year before! Sick really!

    ***They aren't benefiting at all from taking time off. Nadal's points tally has been accrued since he came back. He'll only rise to #1 based on that alone.***

    You see the obvious problem; Nole can only maintain since he won so much last season, while Rafa has no points to defend! It's just not the same playing field! Losing in the 1st or 2nd round only hurts one of them from here on out! Not likely, but Nole's been sloppy about finishing off opponents; esp. Rafa when in a position to close a set or match out!

    ***It shows that amassing Masters series points adds up. Rafa made 6 Masters in finals winning 5 and getting 5600 points from those alone. Djokovic needs to win at least 1 Masters and get to the SF or finals of the other just to have a prayer to defend his top ranking. If he doesn't do well in both Masters his slim chances are gone. Even if Rafa doesn't lift another racket from here until Season End, Nole is hard pressed to 'defend' all his points. If I'm not mistaken, golf uses a 2 yr rolling ranking system.
    ---

    Any player reaching 11 finals, winning 10 tournaments and 2 majors within 7 months is going to have a legitimate crack at reaching #1 within 8 or 9 months. The only way to counteract that is to win tournaments also, which was the road to hoe for Nole. To put it in perspective, if he had beaten Rafa at the FO and gone on to win the title, he pretty much would have sealed the YE top ranking. That would have been like a 2000 point swing, then nobody would even be mentioning how Nole would need to defend so much in the fall. He would have had a good cushion.
    ---

    By the start of Feb '14, we will have had exactly 10 yrs of 'FEDALOVIC' at world #1 rank. From sometime in '74 to sept '88, we also had a few players monopolizing the summit of the world rank charts. -CONNORS-BORG-MCENROE-LENDL.***

    IN the time between then and now, Sampras was a prevalent and constant at #1, but it was a more diverse list of "also-rans;" too many to count! IIRC, even Haas may have reached #2 for a hot minute!

    ***Another relevant question, in the last 10 years how many players have occupied the #2 ranking:

    Nadal, Federer, Djokoivc and Murray, any others? Perhaps in 04/05 I'm guessing Roddick or Safin, but other than that, I can't think of anyone else.***

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  47. ***...Better under Obama? You mean the fact that he's almost doubled the nat'l debt, unemployment has gone up under his watch, food stamp usage and welfare participation are at record highs, cities like Detroit going bankrupt, China practically owns you economically, and Obamacare is driving part-time work through the roof while mid-level companies lay off workers left and right to get under the 50 cutoff, ...? The guy who was willing to bomb a country b/c he made a tough-guy boast about a "red line"? That guy?

    I find it hilarious watching all the Dems toe the Obama line over the Syria strike, claiming that "we have ENOUGH intel to determine it was Assad's troops that launched the chem. missiles", almost all of whom were probably vehement opponents of the evil "W" during Iraq, claiming loudly and daily that "no proof" of WMD were found. Most of the Left and most of the world felt W had sufficient evidence to attack Iraq at the time.***

    Here we go again! I thought more educated people would be out here, but I see the same dolts persist in trying to comment on things they have no clue about! Obama is not responsible for the nat'l debt doubling! You had "W" and the Republicans taking their stupid wars off the books to mask how high the debt was! Obama has put everything on the books and gov't spending has gone down regardless; cuts, seqestor, and other savings have saved the debt from really blowing up! Please know what you're talking about when going up against me! I watch and read too much news and know what I'm talking about! Get over "W!" He took a country that had a surplus, was at peace, with a nat'l debt that was under $6 Trillion dollars! So please spare me with that junk that this is all on Obama! I don't even care for the guy, but I'm not going to let you go w/ the party line, "it's all his fault!" Get over yourself and learn what really happened! You sound so silly repeating FOX NEWS propaganda!

    ***...BUSH did things without paying for them? Where the hell is Obama gonna get all those trillions? Tax hikes on the rich?***

    Well that's one thing you got right, "some people believe cutting taxes gives companies money to be able to expand!" That's the theory, but there are just too many greedy bastards out there that are pocketing that money, cutting staff anyway, and overworking the poor slobs left behind! Why do you think middle income has remained flat for the last 30 years while the rich get richer? Walmart makes billions of dollars that are passed on to 6 people, but they still underpay their workers, look for loopholes, and encourage them to sign up for food stamps and other state care b/c they're such crooks! I could go on, but the thoughts just makes my hands shake at how awful these people are who are stepping on you and me so they can afford several homes, boats, and all other whims! Rich can be rich all they want, but spreading it around more would help the country's economy other than fatten their lone wallets; the bastards! If things are so bad, why is the stock market blowing up btw?

    You need to expand your horizons past Fox News and the Republican propaganda machine! All they care about is gaining power back after Obama humiliated them twice! They made up all these stories about doom and gloom and he has prove them all "liars!" As I said, I'm no fan of the man! He allows these people to disrespect him and the the office with little retribution! Clinton would have punished idiots like Rep. Wilson who called out "you lie" at the SOTU a few years ago! There's Obama glad-handing and playing golf with these a-holes, only to find them insulting him and his wife later on! How low can you go to attack the First Lady who is only trying to improve the people's health of the country? It's sad and pathetic and we're doomed if ever these people are put in charge again!

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  48. Safin had so much talent! It's a shame he was such a head case! Like Nastase in the previous era, he probably had every shot in the book! Unfortunately he embarrassed himself w/ his lack of self control! At least he won 2 majors and s/b a lock for the HOF!
    ---

    I just can't give Nadal credit b/c of the lopsided # of clay court victories! He has surpassed Borg in that respect, but Bjorn went from the FO to Wimbledon grass to win 3 straight yrs, making the final 4 in a row! I want to give Sampras the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being the GOAT assuming w/ his serve he'd beat Federer in his prime, but only playing 1 semi and 1 qtr at the FO disqualifies him since Roger took his lone title in '09 and played several finals!

    ***Martina's unbeaten match winning streaks of '84 has to be it; 74 in singles and 109 in doubles!***

    It's the most impressive since it encompassed all surfaces; indoor carpet, FO clay, Wimbledon grass, & USO HC! She was the most complete player of her generation and extended that greatness with her doubles play in every major! She'll probably be the last to have "The Box Set" with all available majors under her belt! No one else comes close; even her namesake Hingis who won the GS in women's doubles!

    - - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Navratilova - -

    ***Pat Cash: "Nadal & Djokovic are boring" - Of course it would be nice to see players w/ much variety in their games like Fed and Haas. Players having little variety in their own games isn't the biggest problem, but that there is so little variety in all pros' playing styles.***

    Trying to watch the AO from last season w/ Nole and Rafa was tragic! It was the ugliest thing in tennis that I've ever seen! Nole plays like that to blunt Rafa's game, but it's still some of the most horrible looking tennis to be played in the open era! Taking almost 6 hrs to win just was interminable! I don't blame Nole as much since it only seems to happen when playing Rafa who has some of the ugliest stroke production in the game; esp. the backhand where he bends at the waist! If he passes Roger in majors, I'll still have to seriously rank him below due to the majority of his titles on clay! Only 5 majors off clay will never be impressive to me! That's why Borg is so highly regarded going from FO to Wimbledon to win them both 3 str. yrs and making the final for a 4th try!
    ______

    ***Abby Lee Miller of "Dance Moms" herself addressed this issue early in the last season. She used Sophia to challenge Maddie and knock her out of her secure spot. Sophia is overall a better dancer and much stronger on turns. Maddie did have a few weeks of feeling challenged and inferior, but then Sophia left and Maddie went right back to the top of the pyramid and Abby went right back to favoring her and preventing Chloe from being competitive with Maddie.***

    The thing with Chloe besides her mother's poor behavior is her own mental state; wanting to take a break going back to S1! Why should Abby favor someone who doesn't want to dance? You don't hear this kind of thing from Maddie!

    ***...well not everyone's Maddie. You're too star struck on a 10 year old; a little weird.***

    Maddie's very good, but Sophia and Asia are something special if you really want to talk "star struck!" Asia was magnificent in "ALUDC," season 1! She had all the moms' tongues wagging! It's hard to believe grown women would be jealous of a 6 y.o. child! It was infectious getting the kids to make rotten comments as well; including Zac! They all thought she should have been sent home earlier, long before making it to the final 3!

    ***Asia is phenomenal; she just needs some serious training in technique and that girl is going to fly! Her natural talent is off the wall, and something I have never before seen in a child! I would love to see her get the training she needs and become a star!***

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  49. ***Why do you hate Grace of "Will & Grace!"***

    It probably was the character flaws of all the characters that kept me from watching it as much as I should! It was amusing, but at times I would lose it because of how rotten most of them were; just as the OP talked about! What was ridiculous was how inept Karen could be like she didn't know what to do with a glass of ice and a can of coke! Who wrote this BS? She was raised a con artist and was quite poor! She wasn't born rich and detach from reality! Beside Grace's sense of entitlement, I hated how she had to sleep with everything with pants; even Will's doctor and brother! Be a slut if you want, but she crossed the line too much for me to care about her in the least! She seemed to deserve all that happened to her in the end including Will disowning her for a couple years! I would have put her out years before; selfish bitch!

    ***Recent loathsome traits in which Grace selfishly crossed the line sexually: her affairs with Will's brother, shrink, boss and their friend Rob (no matter how superior W&G felt over Rob & Ellen b/c of their mastery at board games, which was extremely shallow and mean-spirited)...her "Affair To Forget" with Rob the Slob was loathsome and unforgivable! She was such a raging promiscuous slut with zero remorse for her actions hurting the people in her life! Will should have ended their friendship when she slept with his brother the very night the Truman boys made amends after a 5 year estrangement! She had so many other options with guest stars who she shared better chemistry with than the ones she screwed then screwed over! She makes Karen seem like a virgin in comparison!***

    You have the same resentments I have about this tramp! Be a slut if you want, but why sleep with Will's brother, doctor, boss, and probably his taylor if she found him? That crossed the line so much, I would have kicked her to the curb ages before he finally did in the last season!
    ---

    ***Which retired star could make a comeback into top 20?***

    I'd pick Marat Safin; probably one of the most talented players in the game! Unfortunately for him, he was a headcase and sabotaged himself so he only won 2 majors! He had every shot in the book and took the cover off the ball, but unlike today's players, he knew where it was going! He nothing like these mindless power players of today!

    ***Safin couldn't do it either - he was struggling to make the top 20 for a few years before he retired. I don't think any of them could. They retired b/c they were done.***

    At his best, Safin could embarrass anyone; including Sampras! He may have struggled at times, but his problem was between the ears! Same with his sister, Safina! I'll take Safin's game over Rafa's "ugly" one anytime! Watching Darcis take him out of Wimbledon; such a fake! He was ok as long as he was winning points! The limping only occurred with the misses; he's so "FOS!"

    ***Wholeheartedly agree... but it's too late for Marat. He was also plagued by injuries and I felt he'd already lost a step toward the end.***
    ---

    He'll find a way to blow it! He's the Tarkenton of his day! All the numbers say he's the best, but still only has the one SB beating my Bears! He's lame, esp. beating up on bad teams like the Raiders! It's all about him acquiring more records except for winning playoff games! Seems like Eli will end up looking better even though the Giants are a mess right now! He's bugged me going back to his college days where he was just as unremarkable, losing to all the powerhouses, but inflating his legend with tomato can schools! If memory serves he was owned by Nebraska and Florida with Tennessee Vols winning it all after he left!

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  50. Republicans and conservatives have hit a new low, lauding Russia's leader Putin as "The Man" while trying to deminish our own President! My mom and others keep telling me, "you obviously haven't had to deal with racists and bigots before!" These people have no shame saying to themselves, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend; showing Obama is more of a threat to them! Some sick MF'rs! I'm disgusted and if someone even tells me they support such people, I'm going to write them off! Damn animals!

    ***I agree that a lot of Republican anti-war sentiment is disingenuous, but at least they are finally using their mad partisanship to a good end.***

    We'll see if you're still patting them on the back when the debt ceiling fight puts us under! I'm so done with these people I could spit! They are all too disgusting for words! They'd rather the country default and blackmail the President than to actually keep things on track! I'm truly done! I'm starting not to even care about people who would put these beasts into power! They must be satisfied with what these guys are doing! If I live long enough to see a Republican in the Presidency again, I better not hear any BS about respecting the office! Heaven knows Obama got none from these animals!

    ***Is everyone in this show, "SVU" a militant, hardcore liberal Democrat? - ...You are clearly out of touch if you think Blacks (And Jewish people) can't be Republicans.***

    No doubt there are disturbed people who vote against their own interests; happens all the time! The thing is conservatives and Republicans have gone over to the "dark side" and have totally lost it collectively! They have started and perpetuated a jihad against minorities; women, Blacks, gays, and Muslims and should be ashamed of themselves! Unfortunately they have none left and continue to do things that are hurting the country, the economy, and our overall well-being! Some really hateful politicians in Congress that can't hide their hate for the Black man in charge calling out "you lie" at a SOTU speech! You can't get more disrespectful, but no apology was forthcoming; actually bragging about it and making money thru a website! Disgusting animals; all of them!

    ***Promoting the acceptance of homosexuality is not an "agenda." Perhaps it might be, but I'm sick of the negative connotation that's been stuck on the word. It's as bad as people using "socialist" as though it's a bad thing, even though it's not. Given the fact that the # of gays featured on DW is, ratio-wise, the same as the # of gays in at least the UK, that makes the show properly representative of the population.***

    That word gets thrown around a lot! Here in the States it's always an "agenda" being perpetrated on society when it comes to women's rights, gay rights, abortion rights, and the like! It's narrow-minded and hateful in so many ways! People are always so concerned about things that have nothing to do with them! Some politicians have come out to say gay marriage affects their straight ones! What a lot of garbage! If marriage was so sactimonious, half of them wouldn't result in divorce! You can't point this out to them b/c they can't and won't hear it! The real killer is we have so many people, even gay people who vote for these clowns! Just shows we're not very bright as a people!

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  51. ***...They may not affect demographics, but they sure do stir up hatred for traditional America and white males esp. Trayvon Martin, Rodney King, OJ, Tawana = innocent victims of the unjust western society. God help you if you don't support Obamacare, you are a racist according to NBC.***

    Well if they don't want to be called racists or bigots, have red staters get over their Obama derangement syndrome! I thought the fever would have broken after losing '12 election to him! Unfortunately we have people on "the right" that would rather destroy the country than have "this" President! Trying to make him illegitimate by saying he's a foreigner (Kenyan), Muslim, Communist, Socialist, and someone that is "other;" you'll forgive me for not exactly giving these animals the benefit of the doubt! Calling out "you lie" during the SOTU can't be explained; the disrespect and level of "hatred" shows something whether you want to call it what it is or not! It began day one with the Tea Baggers and "flat Earth" society!
    ---

    Republican Party To Be Relegated to 3rd Party Status - It'll only be a matter of time! With no thought, no plan, or end game, they're cleaning the gun to shoot themselves in the freakin' head within days! With a rating of 28%, it won't be long until they go groveling to the President asking for a bone so they can put an end to this fiasco! The debt limit is looming with no real idea in sight how to bow out gracefully! If I were Obama and Reed, I'd sit on my hands! Anything short of total capitulation should not be accepted after putting the country through this nonsense again! When Bush was President, his budget director called it "housekeeping!" Even with the Gerrymandering of districts, Republicans will probably lose the HOUSE next year! On Fox News, poor Sean H. is feverishly working the numbers to make it seem like Democrats are in trouble and the President is on his last leg! The only one in that condition is Ted Cruz with his "butt boy" Mark Lee! Their states are the ones getting hit the hardest, esp. Utah where I used to send my tax return for processing when I lived in California! The mohron didn't realize The Fed are the largest employers there with Yellowstone and other parks, rodes, and of course a tax processing center! They've always taken in more dollars from Uncle Sam than they sent DC; so another brilliant plan going down the toilet!

    ***Obamacare is an unpopular law..that even the very people who voted on it do not want! And Obama granted them, along with 1,100 other exemptions and the unions are next.***

    Speaking of LIARS! If not for Republican liars, Obamacare would have been inacted with no fuss or muss, but the constant negative drumbeat from these idiots has hurt US opinion! It's still the law of the land and there's nothing anyone can do about it! There won't be any delays for people, the site will continue to answer all questions, and take on customers regardless of the "hate!" Lets move on and take care of normal business that can be affected! Holding the country hostage has only dropped their numbers to unprecedented lows; worse than '95! They just won't learn; real MOHRONS!

    ***Ted Cruz never had a plan. That was his biggest problem and yes unfortunately his name is now the name of the Republican party. The only saving grace the Repubs might have now is the so called "Rhino's" that actually saw Cruz's bull-crap for the grandstanding it was from the beginning. The '14 elections are less than a year away and the sound bites Dems will be playing over this shut-down will still be fresh in most Americans minds when they do. Another big fail for the clueless Republican followers of some of the "conservative" talk radio hosts as far as I see it.***

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  52. ***The shutdown just isn't the fault of one of them. Obama doesn't hold the purse strings. The House made conditions on keeping the gov't open even though they had already negotiated to do so. Boner went back on his word. That places the 'shutdown' on his shoulders. He could have held a vote on a clean bill but wouldn't b/c the rabid "rightwing" has said they would do everything in their power to defeat him in his next primary election.***

    Brilliant and knowledgeable thought! I wasn't sure there was any left around here! Thanks! What would be the purpose of a President if he allowed the opposition to threaten, take hostage, and put the credit worthiness of the country in jeoparady just to get their own way? You see what happened when Obama relented in 2011 where Boehner bragged about getting 90% of what he wanted! The Sequestor's in affect, the Dems agreed to the Ryan budgest under $1 Trillion this year, but it wasn't enough for the rabid "right!" They expect the man to take a knife to his signature accomplishment of The Affordable Care Act! They over-reached as usual and now it's going to cost them! If I were Obama, I'd let them wallow in the $#!t until the last minute and not accept anything short of full capitulation! All this nonsense could have been avoided months ago, but they thought Obama would fold! Unlucky for them, The Dems haven't been more united and will let the ship go under rather than let these animals on the "right" get away with this kind of extortion! That's the only way to deal with terrorists like this; "let them eat cake!" I see a good election season for the Dems next year with these actions being put on a loop to be replayed over and over again!

    ***The constant negative drumbeat hasn't come just from Republicans! The unions have complained it will destroy the 40 hour work week..and they too..want an exemption! The very people who passed this albatross, to find out what's in it, found out what's in it...and wanted OUT! Obama gave them an exemption, along with 1,100 others...and just wait..the unions will be next! In the meantime...it makes it a law AND A TAX..that some people will not have to worry about...but others will. If Obama was really for fairness like he claims, this would be abhorrent to him, but since it isn't, it only proves how disingenuine he is!***

    You are being rational, but the problem is you've been listening to the other "constant drumbeat" of the negative 'right' too long! They didn't want this to take affect b/c it would just be another successful program brought about by the Dems! They were all for this when they were running the show, but their "hatred" for Obama and trying to make sure his Presidency has no lasting prominance, it's clouded their judgement! They supported a man who successful passed the same legislation in Mass., so whatever they say these days have to be taken with a huge grain of salt! They've proved to be colossol liars about the whole thing since most businesses already offer benefits and this change will not affect them in the least; 'cept maybe additional paperwork! Hours are not going to be cut to stay under a certain level; all that is propaganda and shouldn't be listened to by sane human beings! The numbers prove my points; Republicans going down in the polls and acceptance of this act going up 7% since last month! Without the Republicans bashing it everyday, people are coming around! It had to be done and should have been taken care of years ago! What would you rather happen, millions wallowing in poverty, going into ER's where the rest of us have to foot the bill? That makes no sense! We need everyone to jump on board to make this a successful program!

    ***Fiero, yeah... the fear is that Obamacare will be "too successful." Not that it will do untold harm to the nation and fundamentally transform the US by changing the relationship btw citizen and gov't.***

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  53. ***Federer lost to Monfils yesterday. I really was disappointed after watching the match.***

    I'm sorry, I'm a huge fan, but even I realized this had to happen sooner or later! He's getting old and hasn't modified his game enough to compete! Hanging back on the baseline thinking he can blast winners isn't realistic! He has to chip and charge 'some' on crucial points and quit waiting for an error from an opponent; esp. since it's not happeneing for him! He will continue to drop in the rankings like Sampras at the end, but he can always catch lightning in a bottle and win a major! Week in, week out brilliance is a thing of the past and we need to start accepting that! Federer used up his deal with the Devil getting back to #1 last year, but you had to know it wouldn't last!

    ***Can Nadal Take His First WTF This Year?***

    Of course Nadal has a chance to win the WTF, but it isn't likely! He's traditionally lost his edge after the USO and in one of the WTF tourneys a couple yrs ago, lost all 3 of his RR matches! He's made one final and for someone's thought to be the future GOAT, that's embarrassing! This is Nole's last chance to salvage a dismal season after starting out hot with another AO! He hasn't won anything since defeating Rafa in Monte Carlo! Most players would give up a lung to have his season, but for him it's been a colossol failure so far!

    ***What do you expect from Roger Federer in '14? - With no points to defend, it's easy to see him getting back to #5 or even #4.***

    I've been saying for yrs he needs to attack more; not necessarily serve and volley, but take those floaters out of the air and finish off points sooner! He's been quite stubborn thinking he can play his old game with that older body! I thought that was why he hired Annacone to help him, but he hasn't changed his tactics in the least from what little we see of him before eliminated early in tourneys! I hope ti doesn't get to be embarrassing like Sampras in his last years! He's quite capable of taking another major, but if he has no confidence, lesser players will take him out well before the finals!

    Rafa amazes me when he behaves like he's "never been there before!" I can still see him dropping to his knees in exaltation when winning the 4th set at AO in '12! Lucky for us Nole fans, he came back from a break down in the 5th to win that 6 hr marathon! I'm still recovering after almost 2 yrs with Nole taking 5 hrs to defeat Murray in the semi, then Rafa in the final at almost 6! Save us from these internable matches! At least the umpires are trying to speed things up! Monfils was given a warning a couple days ago, just laying on the court exhausted! He has to get back to the line and at least pretend he's ready!

    ***I thought you are a Fedfan, Fiero?***

    I was, but he's well past it! I've been very disappointed with his stubborness to attack more and finish off points sooner! It makes no sense for him to hang on the baseline rallying with these kids! He's losing to players I don't even know these days! - Watching last week's China Open and Rafa looked really bad at times! That backhand has to be one of the ugliest shots in tennis; bending at the waist and tomahawking it on the past! When it goes off the boil, it's hideous!

    ***Just read on Twitter that Federer has split with his coach.***

    Yeah, blame the coach! lol!

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  54. ***But Rafa has individuality and style; even if it's of the macho industrial strength swashbuckler variety. He's unique, and exciting too. Plus, he wins playing with his bad hand. How much more do ya need! - It's just a matter of taste, isn't it?***

    Nothing nauseates me more than mindless aggression, using new tech of rackets and strings, with a huge sense of entitlement! No one's worse than Nadal; challenging of calls and being wrong most of the time, taking his sweet time to even get up there for the coin flip, and the big stall w/ toweling off! Nole and DelPo were almost running to get back to the line to start a point in the Shanghai final today! I guess the officials are finally enforcing the time rules; 2 days ago warning Monfils who was laying on the court exhausted after a long point! Three to 3 1/2 hour matches are ridiculous for best 2 of 3; most of that time toweling off and whining about calls! I'm still trying to recover from that 6 hr marathon at AO from last yr with Nole and Rafa! I was up all night, into the day and it almost killed me; and I wasn't even playing!

    ***So you dumped Roger cos he lost a few and decamped to Djoker?***

    I haven't dumped Roger, just being realistic about him winning on a consistant basis! He can hang around as long as he wants, but I'm not going to put my money on him taking a major anytime soon! Djokovic has the better chance and unlike Nadal, doesn't have the ugliest game around! I don't watch the ladies' game for that reason! After Hingis and Justine retired, it hasn't been worth watching either, trying to outdo the men with mindless aggression from the baseline! Seems as if they only go to the net to shake hands and pick up a check! The only one worth watching is Aggie Radwanska! There was a time I would never miss watching a match on tv! Now if I hear the players are 2nd tier and have no real tactic besides taking the cover off the ball, I don't bother; least of all record for future viewing! I miss the different types of games and strategy that set each player apart from this current crop! Roger can catch lightning in a bottle and prove me wrong, but how often will that happen? I've done the same with figure skating, baseball, and basketball when it's just unwatchable; I don't bother! I'm a true sportsjunky, but w/o individuality and style I bore easily!

    ***The main problem in Roger's game these days is that he comes into the net too often and most of the time after poor approach shots. I think this style was, at least partly something he acquired from Paul Annacone. However, it is not possible to win in modern tennis w/o paying your dues in the baseline game. Of course, I'm not suggesting Fed indulge in 56 shot rallies, but he definitely shouldn't come into the net like a maniac and should come in only after good approaches.***

    I guess I must not be watching enough! True enough I'm one of those people who say he doesn't come into the net enough! I suppose some can say he's "being a maniac" attacking the net on bad approach shots! You can't have it both ways also saying he shouldn't invest in points lasting 56 strokes! There's got to be a workable and effective happy median b/c whatever he's doing now isn't working! If this continues, he'll start looking like Sampras in his last years winning nothing for 2 years until the USO in '02! I don't want to see that! Adjustments have to be made regardless and a coach is the least of Roger's problem! The other top players are just more effective at blunting what he does well!

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  55. The Republicans have been so obstructing, that things will turn around when it goes back to normal with investments in infastructure, education, and normal common sense measures! We could put 2 million people back to work today to deal with collapsing bridges and roads that are crumbling, but some on the "right" wanted Obama to fail so much, they sacrificed their own districts! Even if Boehner survives this disaster of a shutdown, his own party won't have him back after '14! McConnell is also in trouble in DC and back home due to his own incompetence! They just didn't think this thru assuming Obama would "cave" as he did a 2 yrs ago! They were wrong and he finally got a backbone and said, "go ahead and shut it down!"

    ***Conservatives call Rasmussen POTUS Poll Bogus! They decide to go w/ the AP poll which reports Obama at 37% approval over their ROCK, Rasmussen, which is reporting the President at 51% for the same period. Limpballz even lied and said that when Bush got to 36%, reported by the CNN/USA Today poll in '06, it was the same poll. Why do you cons constantly lie and select the worst news about the Prez as possible? I just don't get it!***

    Rassmussen is supposed to be reliable and The WSJ is owned by Murdock so I can't understand it either! The "rightwing" and conservatives only accept polls they like instead of seeing the truth and reacting accordingly! This shutdown is on them even if Obama and the Dems aren't accepting their terms! They got more than they deserved by them accepting Ryan's budget, the continuation of "sequestor," w/ an agreement to look at more cuts! They can't get away with shutting the gov't down and threatening a default by not raising the "debt limit," so I'd tell them to "kick rocks" too!

    ***Hannity ripped Repub leaders in DC for “alienating” the Tea Party. He named Sen. like McCain (R-AZ) & Corker (R-TN) for being the top offenders and said their “unwillingness to stand strong” and constant bashing of the Tea Party is “irritating every con I know.”

    It's called being moderate with "some" common sense! They understand the ramifications of extending this farce of a gov't shutdown and threatening the credit worthiness of the US! This isn't just affecting us; the whole world economy is tied to us and we're being blithering idiots playing this game! We all know they have to come around sooner or later, but every few months they subject us to this charade and it's time for a leadership change! If Boehner doesn't have the backbone for the job, find someone else who does!

    ***...this is the first time that we've seen the Prez predicting a disaster if he doesn't get his way. - "His way" is the country's way. His ambition is entirely pedestrian: Congress funds the spending they've already agreed to. I remember the Clinton / Gingrich era shutdown, also a disaster for the GOP. I don't recall Clinton taking a stance substantially different from Obama's. Matter of fact, I thought I'd heard Clinton comment on Obama's strait and seemed to be on the same page.***

    This is all on the Repubs! The Senate passed a budget this past april and Boehner refused to send conferees to negotiate other differences! We didn't have to get to this point, but for the spineless and weak SOTH! He has allowed 30 or 40 freshman tea-baggers to run the place trying to stick with some antiquated policy of the "Hastert rule!" Ignoring the Dems just puts us in this ugly position and now they're exacting punishment on them since Republicans are getting most of the blame! Dropping Obamacare or even postponing components of it wasn't realistic and that's why Obama is in the "catbird seat" even if it seems he's punishing all of the country! They've been so obstructing so it's not his problem and I don't blame Obama one bit!

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  56. ***Is Ted "The Fake" Cruz The Democratic Party's Secret Weapon? If Cruz didn't exist, the Democratic Party would have to invent him (and frankly I dare say they couldn't hope in their wildest dreams to do such a good job). ...Could it be that Ted is actually a communist plant, mole, saboteur, spy...? What about his natural born citizen status? Isn't there something funny going on there? Where there is smoke there is fire ya know.***

    Well that was a complete waste of time; shutdown of the Federal gov't and threatening to default on the debt ceiling! What a bunch of assholes! In the end it will end up costing the country more than any savings they were looking for; real idiots on the "right!" Hostage taking doesn't work in this country; don't Republicans know this already? A colossol loss by Boehner, his Tea-baggers, and of course Ted Cruz! Even his local paper has buyers remorse back in Houston! I have little sympathy for the country; someone's electing these fools to do exactly what they said they'd do! Surprise; IT FAILED!

    ***What will happen by the debt Deadline? I voted this will all happen again. The Tea party isn't dead, but the nation seems to be more interested in a self serving style of borrow until the country has a better economy. There's a drive to continue social programs to the unfortunate....I just don't see the American People being ready for "tightening up the belt" so to speak. I think that day is coming and to me the fall is shorter today than it will be in 2 to 5 years.***

    They'll get something done before it becomes another crisis since elections will be coming up! Dems have the commercials already produced and I don't think Republicans want to be hammered for a solid year over this misguided attempt to defund the President's signature legislation! Some are that stupid, but I don't think the leadership will allow this sort of nonsense again so soon!

    ***You're very optimistic, but I'm not, b/c they haven't proved to me they can work together or the willingness to make the necessary cuts.***

    It makes sense to make serious cuts, but not now while we're still trying to recover from the horrendous presidency of "W!" I know no one wants to blame him and his admin., but the facts are the facts! We had a surplus, he gave it to away to rich people who didn't need it, then started 2 wars using a lie to get approval! That wasn't enough, he signed legislation like "No Child Left Behind" and "The Prescription Drug" bills with no funding! The wars weren't on the books so it "appears" Obama doubled the debt! Nothing is further from the truth and most smart people know it! We can't keep cutting taxes for people who aren't re-investing as thought since greed is so fashionable in this country! We would have been out of these straights ages ago if not for the incompetence of the "right" refusing to budge on taxes that some would be quite willing to pay so that the debt would go down even faster! I'm no fan of Obama, but the truth is deficits have gone down faster than any period in recent memory, but you'd think he was signing away the souls of our children! Why can't people remember Republicans were in complete control not that long ago, but the nat'l debt doubled! Clinton turned the country over in 2001 when the debt was under $6 Trillion and going down! Obama did not add $11 Trillion on his own; that's BS! Some would rather bankrupt the country so they can default on the IOU's to Social Security! Republicans HATE SS, Medicare, and other social programs b/c they were ideas of the Dems! That's no reason to hate them, but that's what's what!

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  57. ***Djokovic fans shouldn't feel sad. This autumn he built a great foundation to regain the top spot next summer and it's definitely admirable in the truest sense of the word how he responded to the disappointments in Paris, Wimbledon, & New York. TBH I feared he would suffer a free fall until the AO, but he proved us all wrong. The guy is a true champion.
    ---

    Very good point. I am one of the happy Novak fans, b/c for me, the race for # 1 for this year was a done deal a long time ago. The USO sealed it for me and ever since Nole started his winning campaign in Beijing, I am a happy camper.***

    I'm calmer now! We can't hope Rafa loses all 3 of his RR matches like he did a few years ago! We can only hope Nole will race past to take back his #1 ranking after the beginning of the year! This will be a total switcharoo with Nadal having a ton of tourneys to defend while Djokovic didn't win much after Monte Carlo this year! This is why I feel Rafa isn't the GOAT; yoyoing like this his entire career! He probably could have broken the trend if not for Nole's '11 campaign taking almost everything in sight! I wonder when the rankings will take an explosive turn? Murray couldn't complete the deal with his injury! At least he took a couple majors, but I can't see him continuing his move to #1! What are we to make of Roger? OMG, can he drop even further? Never thought I'd see Stanley ahead of him; even for a moment! DelPo seems to be on the cusp, but he too has trouble getting past the other top players at times; Nole practically owning him! Ferrer has maxed out too! Like Rafa, he just works too hard to win the simplest of matches! Look for him to drop from #3 soon!

    ***I think your vcr is stuck with '05-'07 Rafa matches.....get the BR and update your collection.***

    Maybe! I'm truly stuck in the 90's! I told you I don't watch as much tennis; boring with the toweling off, endless rallies, and homogenized way of playing! Will these people ever learn how to play at the net?

    ***As long as Rafa, Nole and Andy stay injury free.........Delpo will not crack the "Big 4" title. Well, he can for sure IF the draw plays out to his advantage, but taking 2 out 3 in a GS seems almost imposible at the moment. Maybe on clay he has a better chance if somebody takes Novak/Rafa out so he just has to deal with 1 of them....and then pray for the best day of his life on the court.***

    ITA! We used to have more upsets when the courts were significantly more difficult to adjust to, but that along with extended seedings, the top hasn't had much of a challenge until now! We don't know if Roger can make it back to the elite 4, but we're still dealing with the same 2 top players; Nole & Rafa! I can't see that changing anytime soon unless another injury errupts within their ranks! After all that playing last season, I can see Rafa coming up lame; in more ways than one! Nole has recovered some of his confidence with this late season surge! I hope it continues through the AO!

    ***IDK, it's not like when Delpo won the USO. He didn't have to go thru the 2 best players in the world at that time (maybe the 2 GOAT's for that matter).***

    Why do you say that? It's been a few years, but IIRC DelPo stomped Rafa 2, 2, & 2, then came back to beat Roger in 5! Maybe I need to go and look it up, but that's how I remember it!

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  58. ***Does anyone really believe Borg wouldn't have won more majors if he had taken a break to refuel and didn't lose his mind (and marriage) via the Studio 54 life in the early 80s? I could easily have seen him win more slams over the next 2 or 3 years, esp. the French. Saw Wilander give an interview in which he talked about his first French victory in '82 (1st year Borg wasn't there to defend his 6th FO win) and he spoke of playing against Borg to warm up for the event and trying his best to play with Bjorn; he got hipped 6-1, 6-2, 6-2 by Borg the week before the event started! Come on--I think the house could have been bet that Borg would have won his 7th FO that year. I know I have no doubts. Wimbledon or the US Open? Now, I don't know about those 2, what with a reinvigorated Connors and McEnroe, to say nothing of the up and coming Ivan Lendl.***

    That's why Borg is so revered in comparison to other champions who limped out; gift major to Pete at the end USO '02! Everyone knew Bjorn could have come back, but waited too long! It's not like he was too old, but people forget how young he was when he started; 14 years old! Like Rafa today, he worked real hard to win matches; esp. on clay and grass! When on his game, he could embarrass anyone; '78 FO over Vilas and Wimbledon v Connors in straight sets!

    ***I want a different AO Champion next year. I will be happy with anyone, even Dennis Istomin. I've got my fingers crossed for Andy.***

    Like Rafa at the FO and Federer at Wimbledon, I think Nole wants to "own a major!" No other male has won Aussie Open 3 straight years in the Open era with a 4th to eclipse most top players for all time greatness "down under!" I had a thread earlier this year where we assigned different past stars to have major trophy renamed after them and I chose Nole for the men and M. Court on the ladies'!

    ***With the young generation being so weak, Nadal'll probably play in the WTF another 7 to 10 times, so you'd think that he could pull it off once.***

    7-10 more chances? Nadal? - I don't think so!

    ***You guys think that in 5 yrs some other players won't come up through the rankings and step up to the plate? I'm far from being an advocate of the younger generation, but ultimately someone will take central role and start winning big other than the current top guys. This status quo cannot go on forever. I bet 5 of the top 10 will be different in 3 yrs from now and no, they will not be ranked 6-10. Therefore I am giving Rafa 3 more chances the most. That is all he got.***

    Well I was stuck in the 80's, but some here are stuck in the past decade! It's ridiculous to think the status quo will continue for another 5-10 years! Dimitrov will come into his own soon enough, Delpo might start fulfilling his promise, and Nole will have less miles on him than Nadal and Murray! Federer will already be gone unless he pathetically hangs on like Ken Rosewell, producing magic to make it to a major final, only to be annihilated by younger and hungrier talent! I love Roger and his play style, but it gets frustrating watching him think he can hang back on the baseline and rally with players of today! He looks foolish when you know he has the capability to come in and force the action; sorta like taking Nole out of FO semi a couple years ago! He may not stay in the top 10 unless he turns it around real soon! If he goes out early at AO, it might just be over for him in the top ranks!

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  59. ***Who told you Murray has a goal to be No. 1? I don't remember him saying that. In fact, he said he'd like to win as many majors as possible from this point on. But he does need to be a bit more consistent in other tourneys. It certainly doesn't have to be across all surfaces even if he goes for #1. Sampras was never consistent on clay and yet, it never stopped him from being #1 for 6 years in a row. He just calculated his schedules in a very smart way. He kept his consistency alive in the other 3 Majors, WTF and some Masters and those were enough for him to stay at No. 1 and win 14 Majors. So being great on 2 out of 3 surfaces is enough. Sampras made 3 QTR finals, 1 semi at RG and won 3 clay titles including the Rome Masters in his entire career. I can definitely see Murray achieving something similar as he's already made the qtr twice and reached the semi once.***

    Sampras had the game to win RG, but wasn't really committed to doing it; not that I know of anyway! He was also very unlucky playing past or future FO winners! I seem to remember him getting past Bruguera and Courier only to lose to eventual winner Kafelnikov in the semi of '96! I didn't see it, but Agassi supposedly wore him out in an early round one year as well! IIRC his best chances should have been btw '95 & '97! He was at the height of his powers, was established as #1, and could afford really preparing for the tourney! Before and after that he was wasting his time! Edberg had the best chance of winning with an aggressive style, but he was "spent" even before he won that 4th set from Chang in '89! That's one reason I haven't been that hard on top players who skipped or never won the tourney! It had an affect on a player for months depending on how successful he performed making semi or final! Lendl was "done" for '84 after killing himself to win over McEnroe in 5 sets! Edberg was dead meat going into Wimbledon and actually lost a "love" set to Becker in the final! At least the surface and balls have been changed so it isn't as grueling as the old days, but it's still a haven for baseliners! A serve and volleyer hasn't won since Yannick Noah in '83 with an honorable mention of Federer in '09!

    Back to the topic at hand, I don't think Murray has a snowball's chance in Hades to win a FO! He'll be lucky to make a final! Like Nadal, he works too hard from the baseline with players not even highly ranked! You need to "get on and get off" the court sometime and conserve your energy! Add back and knee problems, I think Andy's pushing it to even attend the tourney! I've been begging Roger would get over it and skip to prepare for Wimbledon which he has a much better chance of winning! He's stubborn though, even with his style of play; trying to slog it out with kids from the baseline! Could it get any worse than this past season losing to kids I'd never heard of on clay? In the old days, that would be no big deal, but it accelerates Roger's decline IMO!

    ***Move Masters on clay and Nadal'll win it...indoor favoured Nalby, Nole and Youngderer as well as Sampras and J.Mac.
    ---

    No, we have enough clay and outdoor hard courts of varying (invariably slower) speeds. We need to keep this the biggest indoor hard (or carpet) event of the year at the end of the indoor season. At least, that is what I believe is best for the game--variety baby.***

    Before tennis blew up and took over in the mid 70's, The Masters moved around the world and was played on different surfaces! My first was in '74; Vilas over Nastase in Australia on grass! The following year Nastase beat Borg indoors in Stockholm! I also think it needs to stay indoors regardless of the country! There are enough hard court and clay events out there that we don't need to pander to the baseline culture for the year end tourney!

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  60. ***These problems would not even exist if the conservatives that are now running their mouths did something when they had the opportunity to stop " W " from pushing this Country into the shithole we're now in and trying to get out.***

    Self-inflicted wounds is nothing new when it comes to Republicans and conservatives! If they had laid low and kept their mouthes shut, they'd be in charge of the Senate as well as the HOUSE! They blew it with sick candidates and organizations that talk too much! The jihad on women didn't help them of course so it's not like they don't know how much they're hurting the Republican Party! They were so sure they had built up so much animus towards Obama, they believed anything could be said and he would be history! They obviously wouldn't believe polls telling them that regardless of his politics, Obama was a well liked guy! Romney had no chance esp. with his own self-inflicted wounds of the 47% among other idiotic statements! That's the only thing saving us from total ruin; the fact that Republicans will always shoot themselves in the freakin' head when they "over-reach!"

    ***...Yea, like you gave Bush a pass, remember? Fair is fair no?***

    Excuse me, but Bush was handed a thriving economy, a surplus, and peace! I don't know what else Clinton could have done for the guy, but he was still berated and hounded out of office! So please don't talk about someone getting a pass; even joking! Prosperity won't guarantee a President a pass; not in this freakin' country! Obama never got a "honeymoon" with obstructionists saying, "we're not going to give this man a break! We will vote against any and everything he wants and make him and the country suffer!"

    ***"If palin can't handle the heat, she should get back on the porch and squat with the rest of the puppies. What I find amazing is you folks are bigger wimps than she is. I don't see her whining about how she's being treated by the "lame stream media."***

    What can be said for the sycophants on the "right?" They accept babbling idiots like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and wonder why they're being escoriated by the main stream media? If Hillary Clinton talked about death panels, vaccines causing mental retardation, and other insane notions, I'd expect all media to report it and take her to task! The self pity party is getting real old! The only reason Republicans look so bad is b/c they over-reach, time and time again! They have no respect for normal, everyday people, expecting them to drink up the "dumb" kool-aid they provide! It's crap and the whole world knows it but them! Obama would be in disrepute by now if not for the exaggerated tactics of his opposition repeating themselves with crazy ideas of him not being legitimate, a liar, a socialist, a communist, and foreigner! People have tuned these people out and they should sit back and let things happen instead of trying to exacerbate situations with ridiculous "spin!" Obamacare was hurting on it's on with the roll-out, but Republicans can't keep quiet, making a total spectacle of themselves relating it to slavery, the Holocaust, and worse! Hyberbole does them little good!

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  61. ***Who will be the ATP '14 Year End top 10 players? I don't belive Murray comeback will be like Nadal's.

    1-Djokovic
    2-Nadal
    3-Delpo

    Maybe Delpo will gain to 2nd. For others, its so relative...***

    I was waiting for someone to be bold and say Roger might drop out of the top 10! Some couldn't even let him go befow 5! Big Federer fan here, but this year was awful and I can't see it getting much better! He's tired, has been dealing with back issues, and fooling around with his racket only shows his lack of confidence in his present game! This was a relatively bad year for Nole, so I see him popping back up to #1 by the FO easily! Rafa has too many points to defend and typically falls off after a tough but rewarding season! I can only be sure about the top 3! The rest is a crapshoot:

    1) Nole
    2) Rafa
    3) Delpo

    We have Murray after surgery, Ferrer, & Berdych, then fillers are Haas, Raonic, Warwrinka, and Janowicz! I guess I'll be the 1st that has Roger falling out of the top 10! Someone's gotta do it; sooner or later!

    ***Djokovic Missed the opportunity to become GOAT candidate - I am saying this b/c his losses at 3 slam finals. '12 USO - He played excellent tennis up to semi's

    Wimbledon Final '13 - Again same story facing Murray in final; his game looked off, again forgot how to hit forehand. Lost in straight sets.

    USO '13 Final - Was leading the match up to 3rd set, Hit 21, 19 winners in 2nd and 3rd set resp., but mentally Weak. If he had won those 3 tournaments, he would have taken 9 slams, & 3-4 more will est. him in GOAT category.***

    I believe those 3 losses really hurt his historical standing! Add on '12 FO final after losing '11 semi to Federer; which broke his unbeaten streak! He had all kinds of incentive to do so much better in the 2 subsequent years! He had a real chance to reach the top 5 players of all time, but I think his window may have closed! He may get a FO before all is said and done, but there's been too many "just misses!"

    ***Since '11, Nole consistent machine w/ 5 majors, 16 Masters, & total 21 titles; 2 WTF (undefeated)
    He's 2nd most consistent player of this era after Fed. Slam results were spectacular in last 3 years
    i.e. 3 Slam finals per year (Total 9 finals) w/o injury. Today his resume:

    6 Majors - 16 Masters - 3 WTF - 41 Titles.
    101 wks at #1 (In the era of 2 GOAT candidates)

    We can assume 4 more prime yrs left in him. Considering slower courts, lack of young talent may extend his domination period. Now 6 majors out of 16 is not difficult task for Novak. Also 10-15 Masters out of 36 is also possible plus 2 WTF Titles are within realm of possibilities. So he will end the career w/ 12 Slams (Min) - 25-30 Masters - 4 WTF - 150 wks at #1 - overall 60-65 titles. Points for Davis cup victories didn't get him back to #1!***

    I'm glad I can say it wouldn't have made any difference if Nole had played the doubles! This isn't like the old days when top player wins his 2 rubbers and has to contribute to the doubles as well! They weren't going to hit "the zone" and take out a top doubles' team! Borg did it in '75, but it's a rare feat to win with only one good player! Nole needed a little help and all he got was the B.... errr C team with injury and suspension of his buddies! I don't blame him for skipping it!

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  62. ***The chances of Roger getting into top 4 before Wimbledon doesn't look very good. It surely is not just on his racquet. He needs at least two of the best, Ferrer, Andy and JMDP to falter terribly during the first 6 months of '14. JMDP seems to be on the upswing and probably won't. Ferrer is generally consistent, although he may lose big points in FO this time as he was the finalist last season. Murray is the new Murray who conquered Wimbledon, although it remains to be seen how he plays after surgery. As his 2000 points from last Wimbledon will stay with him until this Wimbledon. The chances of Fed overtaking him before Wimby '14 is less.

    Fed had a SF showing at AO and QF at FO. He had bad results only in W and USO. So his best chances of increasing points is in the 2nd half of the year. So even though he may finish '14 in top 4, the chances of him making it to top 4 before Wimbledon appears so dismal that he may even give it up as a short term goal.***

    Anything short of a plane crash with players ranked higher, Roger won't sniff #4; ever IMO! It has to happen sooner or later! Love the guy, labeled him The GOAT years ago after multiple major double at Wimbledon and USO! I think he overplayed to get back to #1 last year, but at his end, what choice did he have? I've been saying for years, he should stop playing clay altogether! It's just not likely he's going to win it or even make a final! Last season while testing a new racket he lost a couple matches to players I'd never heard of! You can say it was due to the racket change, but watching it, I've been thinking it has more to do with Roger's unwillingness to play more aggressively to end points sooner! He "can not" just sit back on the baseline wailing away on the ball with these kids for sustained lengths of time and extended rallies! He's being stubborn, thinking he can catch lightning in a bottle and win another major "his way!"

    He's fooling himself and it will only get worse now that he's another year older and has rid himself of Annacone, an ex-player perfect for coaching his game! My thought all these years has been more than likely Paul tried to get Roger to play more aggressively, but Federer just doesn't do it enough! Even with his win at Wimbledon last year, his last "great" match win was at the FO in '11, ending Nole's unbeaten streak! He served big and attacked relentlessly! It was the Roger we remember dominating the tour and even Rafa at the majors less than a decade ago! In the final he reverted back to old ways allowing Nadal to run him around like a turkey and he was done! Roger has to be more offensive with age creeping up on him! I see more upsets if he continues thinking "I can win this my way!"

    ***Don't forget that even playing like crap this year, he made the final of Rome. Not bad for playing poorly. Imagine if he played well. He didn't play endless rallies at Rome either.***

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  63. ***On Monday, Nadal officially passes Borg on the all-time list of wks at #1. I love Bjorn, but it's funny how symbiotic they are;…Nadal so often the one to take Bjorn's records.***

    I lived Borg and no matter how long Nadal plays, he'll still come up short in so many ways when it comes to the true legend! Borg won the FO and Wimbledon 3 straight years! That may never be done again even with more technological advances and human stamina! He was a true genius of the game who didn't rely on rackets and strings that helped; more heart really! Bjorn did all he could w/ a wood racket strung at 80+ lb.; a true pane of glass! He limited his play, but still won most of the time establishing records that may never be touched again! Federer obviously comes the closest with 5 Wimbledons in a row; 7 overall (tops with Sampras)! What puts Federer above Borg are those 5 USO's! Borg never got much of a sniff; outplayed, injured, unlucky! TCC rankings put Nadal ahead of him; sorry that's a joke even with his record! IMO, Nadal has been "up and down" throughout his career; hampered with injuries over the years that takes him out of the game for extended periods of time! Agassi breaks didn't impress me either; more so w/ sustain brilliance! Obviously Martina & Roger rank the highest in that respect IMO!

    ***...If you're laying the RG-Wimby combo on the line, that's one of the reasons that Nadal is in there. I agree that there was a sustained brilliance with Bjorn, but he did burn bright and fast, and then quit.
    ---

    Borg as a player impressed me way more than Nadal ever will, so that's where I agree with you, yet you won't see me talking down Nadal's achievements, let alone call them a joke. As much as I liked Bjorn, the guy had his flaws and certainly wasn't the "God of Thunder" you make him out to be. ...
    ---

    McEnroe had nothing to do with Borg retiring..if you don't know that you need to do some research so you avoid looking silly.***

    Thanks! People love repeating that same silly notion that McEnroe ran Borg out of the game! That is so ridiculous! They don't realize Borg turned pro at 14 and was actually seeded highly at Wimbledon as a 15 y.o. in '73 due to the men's strike! I just ignore them since I was watching the entire time! No one player made Bjorn leave the game; sustained excellence was the culprit, and he was totally burnt out! People just aren't accustomed to seeing someone ranked #1 or #2 in the world leave the game!

    ***McEnroe taking over from Bjorn at the top presented him w/ a huge problem: commit to the game and redouble his efforts to get back to the top - or take a break and lick his wounds. Borg was burnt out - but Mac's ascendance had a huge effect on him too. He never meant to retire in '81, and in fact played Monte Carlo in '82 & '83, and Stuttgart in '84, but he wasn't up to putting in the hard yards needed to stay near the top. So it was a bit of both I think: mentally burnt out in '81, but McEnroe's beating him to the top titles pushed him over the edge.***

    But was still at the top of his game winning his last FO over Lendl in '81; #6 and 4th in a row! Some would kill to have that on their resume as a parting gift from the tour!

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  64. ***If Murray doesn't play Oz it increases Roger's chances of getting into the top 4 before Wimbo...***

    That's a big "if!" Seems as if Nadal's the only one that willingly skips a major among the top tier of players! Surgeries these days don't cut open a complete joint anymore; usually more precise with a small incision used to repair damage which aids in the healing process! He already missed the FO; can't afford to lose more points if at all possible!

    ***I personally really hope Tommy Haas makes top 10 again in '14 if only for a few weeks. What an achievement it would be. And he's not far off it points-wise. - Problem w/ Haas is that he plays in way too many tournaments and spreads himself too thin. With proper scheduling, he could have even made it into WTF last season.***

    Well we can say Haas is playing too much or we can look it as he's getting out there while he can! At his age, he's going to break down and the next time it'll be the end more than likely! I say Roger should cut back more on his schedule, esp. skipping clay events altogether, but like Haas, the end is close so he doesn't want to miss out on any opportunities! You lose in the end either way IMO unless you're more single-minded about taking 1 or 2 more majors like Roger! Haas has no real chance to take anything major so he might as well play as much as possible while he can!

    ***Come on, we're allowing a lot of secondary tourneys to be associated with the word "slam." We have 4 Grand Slams, no gold medal Slams or WTF slams. 4 majors - the cream of the sport!***

    The tennis "powers-that-be" have been trying to create a 5th slam or major for over 20 years! First it was the Masters, then Miami having the same major format with both women and men! Indian Wells was thought of as the next biggest venue in the world a few years ago! Silly IMO! It's just another tournament with great accomodations; period! It doesn't have the history or even full support when The Williams' have decided never to attend due to problems from over 10 years ago? Even though I'm not from Europe, you have to give more props and all due respect for old tourneys like Rome! It's had spotty attendance in the past, but it's still huge IMO!

    ***That's true buddy, and Rome was once considered the 5th Slam by the media. I think they like to tinker with things, hype them up a little. We had a lot of huge big, giant events that were to challenge the status of the slams, but even when Oz fell into disfavour with the top lads, there was never a suggestion of down-grading it. Shows how special the 4 are, really. I certainly wouldn't like to see a 5th slam seriously considered by whatever powers that be at the time.***

    You're very young; just guessing! I was around back in the 70's when players like Johan Kriek (2 titles), Brian Teacher, and Mark Edmondson won the Aussie for the men and women winners were led by Barbara Jordan, Chris O'Neil, & Kerry Melville-Reid! Top players didn't want to be bothered with the flight, the lousy conditions with wind and bugs, so believe me, OZ was being down-graded; hense their rush to create a new venue with an elevation in the winner's check!

    ***I remember all those players, but when I say about Oz being downgraded, I meant there was never any serious suggestion it should become an ex-slam and be replaced by Rome, or somewhere else. But I might not have the memory of it you have, and perhaps you're right that there were suggestions and that's what put the flame under Oz to get their act together.***

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  65. ***Wilander: "What happened to Bjorn Borg is that the ITF organized the Grand Prix Tour with 8 tourneys imposed on the players. Maybe Borg didn't know exactly which ones he wanted to go to, and he didn't sign. So the rules were that he had to qualify for Roland Garros, even though he had won it 4 times in a row (6 in 8 yrs) and he was then #1 in the ATP ranking... FO organizers did try to make money out of his qualifying games by selling tickets on a big court at Jean Bouin. Bjorn Borg didn't accept that and decided not to play again. Of course, he knew there were young players who could beat him, like McEnroe, but this is not the explanation for why he quit the tour."***

    Maybe after all this explanation, I'll never see that BS of McEnroe beat Bjorn down and out of the game! That's so insulting to a great champion like Borg! I hadn't heard the qualifying for the FO and those idiots trying to make money off of it! I knew about the minimum # of tourneys was the main reason; understood, but look at what happened! Was it worth it in the end? You have some players (I won't name name) who fain injury or are suspended and that's ok, but to be honest and say "I need to cut my schedule; I'm burned out," you're run out of the game!

    ***There are at least 5 other players besides Roger, Rafa, & Borg who have achieved career channel slam. However, only Roger, Rafa, & Borg were able to do channel slam.***

    Is that anything like "The Old World" triple; Rome, Paris, London? Borg did in '78 IIRC!

    ***No, you have to make it up yourself. I have not heard of it before. However, there is a CLAY slam. This is sweeping all clay Masters events and FO in the same year. Rafa did it in 1 year. However, it is noteworthy that even Rafa could pull it off only in once.
    ---

    Uncle Toni wants Rafa to win AO. He wrongly says Laver is the only one who did the career Slam twice. Roy Emerson also did it. If Rafa does it, he would be the 3rd person to do so.***

    I know it sounds ridiculous to bemoan Rafa's unbalanced success, but Margaret Court now suffers the same fate with 11 AO of her 24 majors; home court as it were! Rafa needs to take some extra Wimbledons and USO's to achieve true GOATdom IMO! What puts Federer ahead of him for all time besides the actual number of majors is the quality with 12 Wimbledons & USO combined to Rafa's 4! Is that still being partial? How many good years do people think he has to equal and surpass Federer? He has a winning edge in matches played, but most will discount the clay events where Rafa is KING! What does Rafa want BTW? All we hear about is what Toni wants! Is Rafa literate?

    ***I personally really hope Tommy Haas makes top 10 again in '14 if only for a few weeks. What an achievement it would be. And he's not far off points wise. - Problem with Haas is that he plays in way too many tournaments and spreads himself too thin. With proper scheduling, he could have even made it into WTF last year.***

    Well we can say Haas is playing too much or we can look it as he's getting out there while he can! At his age, he's going to break down and the next time it'll be the end more than likely! I say Roger should cut back more on his schedule, esp. skipping clay events altogether, but like Haas, the end is close so he doesn't want to miss out on any opportunities! You lose in the end either way IMO unless you're more single-minded about taking 1 or 2 more majors like Roger! Haas has no real chance to take anything major so he might as well play as much as possible while he can!

    ***Good point, Fiero! Got to play while they can - they'll be retired long enough.***

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  66. ***I believe all Masters Tournament finals used to be best of 5 until this match btw Roger and Rafa. This not only made the finals into 3 sets, but also paved the way for 1st rd bye for top 8 seeds in the 2nd Masters in case of consecutive events.
    ---

    It's all helped to keep the older players on tour at the top longer..so the reason why they stopped 5 set Masters and brought in byes has been a big success. Even though they were at peak of careers..it is clear after a 5 hr final, Rafa & Federer thought, Hamburg??? No way, no dice. 5 sets Masters were epic, but I don't mind not having them if it means a higher participation percentage of players in other tourneys.***

    This has been the bane of my aggravation with the tour! They keep making accomodations for the top players; hense the lack of significant upsets! That happened all the time in past eras and it's where you had odd players winning large events! Everything about today's tennis bothers me so I shouldn't vent here! This is just one of many things that have made watching the game less fun to watch!

    ***The WTA is not interesting to me, it's an inferior product, but Bodo makes a few telling and interesting comparisons btw the 2 tours, focusing on numbing predictability of the Big 4 to win all the majors, and 99.9% of the MS titles too.***

    ...It's not like I want to see a bad final like Bartoli & Lusicki at Wimbledon, but it should happen sometime if not for accomodations made so that the Big 4 are always "right there" for majors and Masters!

    ***Well, when he says "rigged," I think he means it benevolently, but the tour now perfectly suits players of an aggressively defensive style of play. All across the board and on every surface. And of course, this lack of diversity is the double edged sword of the men's tour.
    ---

    To get a bit of more insight, Fed during '04-'07 went 27/56, just 1 short of the absolute 50% mark. Nadal's top 4 yrs (5,8,10,12) gets him 23/56, Noles top 4 yrs 22/56. Sampras Top 4 years is at a distant 18/56. Only Nadal + Nole in the last 4 yrs are better with 36/56. Ridiculous stat there. In a yr there are 9 masters, WTF, & 4 slams. That's 4*14=56 top titles up for grab. Also for Federer, these are consecutive years while for Nole, Nadal, & Sampras, their Top 4 year results aren't.
    ---

    ...keep in mind that Roger, on his way down from his peak years, managed to get to #1 when all of the top guys of the time (Nole, Murray, Nadal) were having their respective peaks. The guy basically proved he could get to the top even when he's half a step slower. What does that tell you about the level of competition now?***

    It of course has happened before; Jimmy Connors in '82! Most people thought he was done for the most part, just hanging around; fodder for the youngster surrounding him like McEnroe & Lendl! He beat both in major finals taking back #1 when most thought it impossible; John at Wimbledon and Ivan at the USO! I doubt Roger will hang on like Connors at 39, allowing his ranking to drop precipitously after winning his last major in '83; uso! Only time will tell!

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  67. ***I think that Rome match rang the death bell to 5-set finals in Masters tournaments. Both Rafa and Roger skipped the Hamburg tourney that was starting the next day.***

    I thought it terrible when tourneys finals went away from best of 5 in huge events; Italian Open, IW, & Miami! With the compressed spring schedule so loaded, I guess they had to do something to eliminate withdrawals like you mentioned with Rafa and Roger! I still remember an IW final with Edberg over Agassi that went 4 sets, but took well over 4 hours with long sets! Common place now, but not so common "way back when!" They still need to push these guys to move quicker during matches! I see a little bit of it, but the guys still push the envelope; esp. Rafa!

    ***Bodo is talking crap in that article. He claims that the surfaces have all been homogenized and have become slow. However, he feels that this affects only Men and not Women. Last time I checked, the men and women play on the same surfaces in all the slams.***

    Bodo's right in so many ways! Women holding serve has always been a problem going back to past generations! Return of serve was stressed more with only a handful of women who served well enough to hold without problems! Even Martina Navratilova had difficulties; esp. on clay! I remember '83 Family Circle Cup where she played Tracy Austin; both couldn't hold initially! The first set had one hold and that was Austin at 5 all; Martina lost serve again giving it up 5-7! Navratilova shook herself and wiped Tracy out 6-0, 6-1, but that lone game was her losing serve again! It happens! Gabriela Sabatini was serving for Wimbledon twice in '91 against Graf; lost it! I could go on!
    ---

    The more I think about it, the more upset I get thinking about how the ATP tour has "rigged" the game for the top players! In my old age, I still hark back to the 70's, 80's & 90's to laud obscure, but talented "B" players not only making major finals, but on occasion actually winning one with a Masters event or 2! Sampras got a break at Wimbledon and the USO playing the likes of Pioline, Philippoussis, Martin, Ivanišević, Chang, Moyer, and his personal pigeon Jim Courier! I'm not saying I want to see bad major finals, but early round upsets were expected; injury, illness, tough matches, and more parity! Earlier in the thread we talked about how the tour has really guaranteed the "creme of the crop" in tournament finals by making sure they're rested and ready to go; hense going to best of 3 sets in Masters and more byes inactied in tourneys outside of the majors!

    It's not so bad there isn't a diversity in championship winners, but even the semi-finalists & finalists are the same players; Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic, & Del Po! In the last 10 years I can only think of Soderling making a significant impression, upsetting both Federer and Nadal at the French Open in successive semi's! Due to how the top players are coddled, it's the same 4 players making the semi's in smaller events! TCC brings it up almost every tournament that the same 4 or 5 players will take more than 60% of the yearly chps! I used to think the other players didn't have enough heart or they just didn't know how to finish; the Spanish Armada of Ferrer, Amalgro, etc, Berdych, Tsonga, and of course Roddick in his day! Am I exaggerating? Am I the only one who sees this? Anybody else care?

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  68. ***Sadly, that pathetic effort that gave Obama 'face-time" did nothing for Christie. His state still has not recovered. Obama was no help at all. ...Christie and NJ would've been better today, had Romney won -- oh well.***

    Oh please, Christie has always been only about Christie; and nothing else! Setting up his election so he could run w/o Booker on the ballot proves where he's coming from! He's now become the head of the RGA and will designate how $150 million will be spent in elections next year! More power to him; will throw the Republican party into more of a psychosis! They don't know what the Hell to do! They keep shooting themselves in the foot, more like the head of late! They had Obama on the ropes, ragging on the ACA, but McConnell kept supporting fillibuster of necessary judges on appeals court! Reid finally got fed up and invoked a "nuclear option" and now McConnell is out there talking about a power grab! What a nerve; did it to himself! He threatens the Dems will regret it! They won't regret shit b/c they NEVER obstructed Bush this much with only 5 of his judges blocked out of 200+ while Obama has had his picks shot down 82 times out of 160+! That stinks, so I think the Dems had to take this gamble b/c these positions will last far beyond and into the next generation! I love it; finally! The House isn't doing anything anyway so Obama might has well fill all positions and not even try and compromise with these assholes; no chance anyway! BRAVO!

    ***Obama: Nuclear Option Will Increase "Fighting" And "Bitterness" - As to when the GOP gets back in power is debatable. Perhaps at some time we can have some moderation in Congress. People used to complain that there was no difference between the Dems and the Reps. Not the case anymore.***

    The usual players will continue to play victim when the case is Reps brought this on themselves! They made several agreements to cut back on using the filibuster and they welched each time! With 93 openings in the circuit courts of the Fed, Reid asked for only those top 3! Many including Lyndsey Graham had promised to block even the 1 candidate initially brought into the system by Bush! That was the final straw! Now McConnell will have to deal with Obama cramming the courts with his choices! I hate that it's come to this, but McConnell would have done the same thing if ever his side took back the Senate! It was inevitable; like they forced Reid's hand! It's their own damn fault and I don't think it'll matter in the grand scheme of things! While The Dems have been trying to abide precedent and decorum, The Republicans played on that, totally being hypocritical when roles are reversed so I said "screw 'em!"

    ***This President has done more to harm our way of life than all of the other Presidents before him. If I wanted to live in a socialistic paradise, I would move to Canada.***

    Feel free! No fan of Obama, but after what Bush/Cheney put this country through and left us in such a horrible condition, the worse thing that could have happened is if McCain/Palin or Romney/Ryan had taken over! That would have been the freakin' end of us! The Great Depression would have been a 'golden era' in comparison! Reps can't be trusted nationally! They're more concerned with paying attention and fullfilling promises to lowlifes who couldn't care less for their fellow man! They're all liars and hypocrites who talk about small gov't while they legislate personal choice! Fiscally they're FOS as well thinking that lowering taxes to rich people who don't re-invest, steal whenever possible, and lobby those corrupt bastards to the detriment of our country! Dems may be just as crooked, but at least they pay for shit unlike Reps who have tripled the national debt with their tactics of inflating defense spending, lowering taxes, starting wars, and legislating things with no way of paying for it!

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  69. ***I would put my money on Serena winning Female Athlete of the Year awards and the Espy.***

    Unless the Olympics were performed, the top tennis player's going to get it! With no Anaka Norstrom or Nancy Lopez-Melton in golf, ONLY a tennis player has a real chance! Women's basketball hasn't caught on enough and soccer comes and goes! It'll be Serena; mark the words!

    ***All due respect to Gaby, Serena should have won last year, 2 gold medals, Wimbledon, & USO. I agree, But you know how the Media is, they will go w/ the fresh-faced new kid on the block and Gabby was the big story of the Olympics.
    ---

    If it was actually Frankenstein's Monster, who would you have used to create a tennis player? (meaning the worst/ugliest shots) - I can think of some having bad or at least pretty mediocre ones...

    Edberg forehand, Rusedski backhand drive/pass, Agassi volleys, Connors serve could be shaky and average overall, Courier backhand wasn't exactly a weapon (similar to Roddick)***

    Throw Rafa's stroke production in there; some of the ugliest in the history of the game! The serve "ain't" that great to look at either!

    ***Hey, Rafa rarely loses serve! He only dropped it 4 times during the USO. Roger only broke it once in 30 service games at Wimbo in '08. The guy's serve stacks up nicely, merci beaucoup.***

    I never said it wasn't effective; just not pretty to watch! Sorta like McEnroe; it's not the speed of the ball that hurts opponents! I'm spoiled by remember hard hitting left-handers that didn't look like epileptics trying to play the game; Rod Laver, Roscor Tanner, Manuel Orantes, Guillermo Vilas!

    ***Ah yeah, all Rafa's growing gang of mannerisms and tics, twitches and wedgies, make this serve a quite long-winded and dramatic affair.
    ---

    ...He was waiting to see where Nadal was playing before scheduling his tourneys so he can avoi...nahhh***

    Fed thinks nothing of it! He's full of himself thinking that at his age and being a step slow that he can still win a match against Nadal! It's getting to be embarrassing even on HC and carpet! That wagging his finger after stopping Nole's unbeaten streak at '11 FO semi was more than a little premature! Did he really think it would make a difference in the final against Rafa? That was one less chance for Nole to get another victory and finish his career GS! Roger better start out hot next season or I see a "Sampras slide" where more and more players we don't even know are "taking out" the GOAT in earlier and earlier rounds!

    ***...I agree that Nadal's passing shots are superlative, but I think Borg was as good or better.***

    ...and Borg was better even w/ inferior equipment; wood racket and strings at 85# of pressure! The most accurate passer of all time; regardless of era! He had to deal with many serve and volleyors where Nadal has no one that great at rushing the net! How many times does he really have to pass players like Nole, Roger, Andy, and DelPo? So Nadal is getting more props than he deserves!

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  70. ***Assemble the Greatest Possible "Hybrid Tennis Player"

    Serve: Pete Sampras
    Forehand: Roger Federer
    Running Forehand: Pete Sampras
    Backhand: Novak Djokovic

    Slice: Ken Rosewall
    Movement/Court Coverage: Rafael Nadal
    Forehand Volleys: John McEnroe
    Backhand Volleys: Stefan Edberg

    Overhead: Pete Sampras
    Dropshot: Fabrice Santoro
    Lobs: Hewitt / Rosewall / Edberg
    Passing: Lleyton Hewitt
    Return: Novak Djokovic

    Mental Strength: Rafael Nadal
    Tactical Prowess: Mats Wilander***

    Sampras' running forehand against Agassi was a sight to behold! All Andre could do was scream "fuck me" as he was passed while the net! They usually had one point in the match that went well over 20 strokes and Pete would break it open with a big forehand running Andre way off the court! All Sampras had to do was stroke an easy backhand into the open court while Agassi's in the front row of seats! Nowadays points like that are common place making matches take well over 3 hours for best of 3 sets; ridiculous!

    Nole's backhand and service return are "for the ages" great; solid, penetrating, and very consistant! Nadal is so accustomed to hitting high balls into players' backhands, but Nole handles them easily and it really hasn't been "broken down" by anyone! You're better off going at his forehand!

    ***Yeah, Pete's running forehand - esp. when he was playing possum and leaning on his racket btw points as if close to death - was a thing of beauty.
    ---

    I've got to admit, I'm kind of ready for some new blood - a dark-horse to come in and upset things a bit. I don't really see much changing in '14, but maybe we can hope for at least one big tournament going to someone else.

    Del Potro is mainly to blame for this, particularly when you look at how he basically just gave away the IWs and Cinci Masters Events when he clearly should have won them based on talent and surface.***

    Exactly what I was talking about! It's almost obscene to see the domination so complete! They used to talk about women's tennis like this with Martina, Evert, Graf, and Seles! You had a little sprinkling of Mandlikova, Sabatini, Shriver, & Austin, but it was the same situation! I'm not going to say it's unprecedent that just a handful of male players dominate the tour, but it was another era! We have a number of great athletes, but it's the mental side that seems to make the difference now! The courts, rackets, and balls have really homogenized playing conditions and tactics; too boring for words! Routine points of 20+ strokes are ridiculous, which extend matches to 3+ hour affairs; even the women! In some ways, I feel like I'm still recovering from that AO men's final in '12! Had been up all day and watched Nole and Rafa go at it live here in Chgo going into the next day; 5:53!

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  71. ***I love it when the libs call it "Faux News." Fox has more viewers than CNN and MSNBC put together which tells me a lot of libs are watching; the smart ones that is, the rest watch Matthews & Sharpton.***

    It's called "Faux News" b/c they're liars and distorters of the truth! They've been busted many times making up their own facts; esp. about Obamacare; ACA! Hannity had a panel making up stories about how it was affecting them and 1 by 1, they were found to be exaggerating the truth or making up whole facts! One said he'd have to cut staff and maybe lower wages when the ACA has no affect on him really; had 4 workers, not 50+! Another was complaining about lack of coverage for his child when it's discovered the fool never entered the name in the application! I watch Bill O and he's so full of himself! He's lived everywhere, knows everything, and he's been caught in lies as well even when he tries to clean it up with jokes! (not funny btw) His attacks are so mean-spirited, trying to get people fired when he's being called out; truly disgusting! Megan Kelly's no better thinking she can slip a few lies past her audience with a pretty face! Her own willingness to make up stuff makes her ugly so she's wasting her time on people who know the true facts! Unfortunately they take advantage of the "low info" crowd who don't have a clue! It's unfortunate they allow themselves to be lied to, day in and day out! They'll die in ignorance unless they get their news from more reliable sources!

    ***The median age of the typical FNN viewer is 65. They're down 28% in total viewers &
    37% in the key demo 25-54! So really what this means, Faux News is for 60's crowd!***

    FNN doesn't want to talk about that on camera too much! lol! BO bs's his way through the formula used for ratings every once in a while; adding up the audiences of all 3 telecasts of his show! So he truly is full of shit when it comes to his own popularity! He's been called out for misrepresenting facts & himself by the best incl. John Stewart, Bill Mahar, and David Letterman! I think Letterman called him a "goon" w/ BO sitting next to him!

    ***Interesting.... Catch a freaking clue...one of your liberal buddies comes here and makes a thread about how "Faux News" is BS...only problem is, I want him to verify the info he's bitchin' about. So who really are the "liars and distorters of the truth?" Good grief...do you even take a look around outside your little ideological world to see what you're saying?***

    Oh please, we can throw all the evidence in the world at your feet and you'd dismiss and kick it away! I gave you an example of Hannity being busted; so easy to prove w/ the tactics of a grammar school dropout! He belongs in that kabol of idiots like Rush, Beck, Levin, & O'Reilly (even with his so called education at Harvard)!

    ***A) I'm not talking about Hannity. I couldn't care less about him. Hannity is political opinion show just like all the goof ball shows on MSNBC.

    B) ...can't even get your facts straight.

    C) Bill O is great...I do watch him and think he's about as honest as they come.***


    Yeah, just throw it out there; "can't even get your facts straight" bs! What did we get wrong? We gave stats out there along with examples and you "poo-poo'd" it all! That's your problem you can't accept the truth about "Faux News!" I've been watching since '97 with the original line up of BO, Catherine Crier, and Hannity & Colmes so I know of what I speak! The entire network has degenerated into sleaze during prime time and make it sound ok by saying they're only opinion shows! Yeah, right! Looks like BS to me regardless!

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  72. ***Yes, Borg couldn't switch off from tennis; part time in '82. All that tennis since his mid teens, never mind all those unofficial tourneys /exhibs he played helped push him out. But the ITF were witless gimps..and BORG WAS GONE.***

    I just wish commentators and press reported the true skinny, instead of the folklore that McEnroe had run him out of tennis after losing Wimbledon & USO finals of '81! Back then, I'm not sure if Tennis or World Tennis mags did him justice!

    ***I think if top players cared more about doubles, they'd be winners in majors too...***

    It's hard to blame most top players for skipping doubles play! They work so hard in the singles' event; esp. at the majors playing best of 5! Fed might if not for his age, but they've been talking about this a lot in tennis news! I think they even devoted a segment in a TCC program; "winning all 3 events at a major!" BTW, Navratilova was the last one to do it; accomplishing it at least twice! The last time was at '87 USO! I had to wait until the Tennis Magazine ranking and record book came out in feb. '86 to find out she did it at the inaugural event of the Lipton Chps of '85 in Miami! Everyone attended except Connors and McEnroe; upset about the equal prize money reported to be their reason!

    ***I think there are many myths about Borg and the way he departed. Choose your myth and move on...***

    I actually remember hearing Borg and Vilas played doubles together and won titles while under contract w/ the WCT! Of course you never saw any of those matches, but I had about 4 reference mags sent to me monthly to keep up w/ all the news and gossip behind the scenes of the tour back in the mid 70's! After all the hubbub about suing him back in '75, Connors latched onto Ashe at a summer clay event in the States; maybe '77! Records show Connors and Nastase were a good match as well! Raul Ramirez was #1 in singles and doubles for about a minute; played w/ Brian Gottfried! In my day the top teams were doubles' specialist like Hewitt/McMillan from South Africa and Stewart/McNair of the US! I caught the tail end of Smith/Lutz and Newcombe/Roche!

    ***Best moments of '13 - Djokovic winning the AO
    Djokovic winning the WTF!
    Del Potro beating Rafa at Shanghai!***

    Add Djokovic winning Monte Carlo beating Rafa Nadal in the final
    Darcis beating Rafa at Wimbledon in the 1st round
    Zeballos beating Nadal in Chile, VTR final

    ***Most Dominant Years based on # of Big Titles?

    Big tourneys = Grand Slams, Masters (for men) and Premier Mandatory/Premier 5/Tier I (for women), & YECs. That gives us 14 for both the men and women. Looking back over the past 20 yrs or so, the highest # of big tourneys won by 1 player in a single year was 8. And this happened 3 times:

    1. '06 - Roger Federer (92-5) - 8 big titles, 3 other finals
    AO, IW, Miami, Wimbledon, Toronto, USO, Madrid, ATP Finals
    Runner-Up: Monte Carlo, Rome, FO

    2. '11 - Novak Djokovic (70-6) - 8 big titles, 1 other final
    AO, IW, Miami, Madrid, Rome, Wimbledon, Montreal, USO
    Runner-Up: Cinci.

    3. '13 - Serena Williams (78-4) - 8 big titles, 2 other finals
    Miami, Madrid, Rome, FO, Toronto, USO, Beijing, WTA Finals
    Runner-Up: Doha, Cinci.***

    I glanced at the thread and wondered 2 things; lack of representation of the greatest years in women's tennis with Navratilova, Graf, & Court and the incl. of Sharapova in here at all? The only thing Maria dominated was press coverage! That's a colossal joke in comparing her to Graf's "GOLDEN SLAM" year in '88! It took almost 10 yrs for Maria to acquire her 4 majors while Graf and Court did it all in '88 & '70 resp.! - OTH, Martina lost 6 matches in 3 yrs; '82-'84 (86-1 in '83), winning 8 of the 12 majors, 6 in a row from '83 Wimbledon to '84 USO (no one's won 6 majors in a row), a 74 match winning streak in '84, and took '83 & '84 WTA Chp (8 overall and twice in '86)!

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  73. ***All due respect what Martina accomplished is awe-inspiring, but let's not pretend she or Graf had the stiffest competitions either. With the huge exception of Evert, Martina was competing against head cases like Mandlikova & Jaeger. Shiver & Sukova were good for consistency, but not day to day challenge. With Graf, u had an aging Evert, Martina was injured a bit, the same w/ Shriver, Sukova, & Mandlikova, all whom were not as good as they were years before.

    What I am trying to convey is, let's not pretend, only Serena had players whom didn't stack up. Fact is, I'd take Vika and Maria over over Pam, Hana, Helena, Conchita, & Gabriela.***

    ...and Serena doesn't have head-cases to play against and "own?" Vika and Maria are at the top of the list in this generation! They get into battles with players you don't even know, going to 3 sets and 3 hours! You can only play who's on the other side of the net! People probably said the same about Margaret and BJK way back when!
    ---

    ***ITA Fiero. Martina's greatness was something that almost shook the Earth. In some senses, Serena's physicality is as brutal and imposing - but Serena is beating girls who's lower lip quivers when they have to hit a 2nd serve. Women's tennis nowadays is rubbish and if Serena had a major rival, it would be interesting.***

    Don't forget the older burnouts like Kuznetsova; even though I love her! She truly under-achieved w/ so much athleticism to only have 2 majors! HOF'r though! - As to Martina's rivals, how soon we forget Goolagong & Wade early on, then Tracy Austin, Seles & Sanchez-Vicario at the end, and a host of other ladies, but major event winners nonetheless!
    ---

    ***Is anyone shocked that Cowboys blew another one at home? Lost a 26-3 lead to GB; 37-36.***

    Absolutely not! I don't watch "First Take" on ESPN much, but tomorrow I'll make an exception! Stephen A. Smith will excoriate, then laugh in the face of Skip Bayless who loves him some Cowboys! Smith's been saying for years "Romo will always break your heart!" He'll perform well enough to be highly rated, with great #s, but when dec. rolls around, all bets are off! No lead is safe and that team will find a way to lose an important game; even at home! It's pathetic! Why are they called America's team; are we losers too?

    ***Thats for sure. Its just crazy how much raw individual talent they really do seem to have on offense and yet they are completely clueless on how to use it all, let alone build any sort of consistent chemistry.***

    Hmmm, where have I heard this before? OH, it was last year and the year before and the year before and the year before...! As long as Jerry's running the show, "The Boys" will find a way to lose important games, no matter the lead; even at home!

    ***The NFC East and AFC South is in competition for "worst division" crown at this point.***

    There's a big juxtaposition with NFC West and East! The West sent a 7-9 team into the playoffs a couple yrs ago and the East used to be the strongest division around with multiple SB appearances and wins up and down! Now the West has taken over with 2 of the best teams in the conference! The East has been a disgraces for years now and it doesn't seem to be on a winning track with 2 ego-maniac owners! They so remind me of Oakland while Davis was alive, meddling in the day to day operations and not really letting his staff run things! Dallas will continue being schitzo as long as Jones thinks he can GM and coach the team! They haven't done anything since Jimmy's Boys; handled by Switzer in '95! One playoff win in all these yrs and that was a fluke!

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  74. ***Well it's basically been the 128 player draw at Slams vs 4 guys who had a shot at winning any of them (5 if we count Del Potro, but he hasn't made a slam final since '09 so I won't) so it's only fair to be super critical of the rest of them.***

    That's all I've been saying for the most part! It's not that the top 4 are that great, but the rest of the field is so bad; at least mentally! No lead is safe; look at Wimbledon with Verdasco! He was up 2 sets to none, in complete charge of Murray in the semi and systematically gave it all back and the match! IT was pathetic, sad, and gutless as far as I'm concerned! Haas was leading Roger 2 sets to none at FO a couple years ago and couldn't finish! It happens again and again; has nothing to do with the greatness of the top players! It's more about the mental side with the rest of them!

    ***I am more concerned with the grunting that is not enforced than the illegal coaching; Uncle Tony to Rafa. Players are basically screaming when they swing at the ball. Not only is it a distraction, it takes away any chance of an opponent picking up the sound of the ball. That is a big disadvantage, esp. if a player is hitting every other shot thin. Not to mention that it is impossible to tell if a ball is mis-hit w/o the audio.***

    Agreed! It's unwatchable, both men and women with all that noise on court! Looking at classic matches, some guys were even quiet during the serve! Today's players might be hitting a drop volley and you'd think they exerted every ounce of energy they could muster to make the shot! After that, I fault all the "toweling off!" That's what's really dragging these matches out to 3+ hours besides the relentless rallies! Speeding up the matches has been about as successful as the NFL trying to cut time off football games! They can still go 4 hours if QB's are chucking the ball all over the place; incompletes, running out of bounds, timeouts/challenges, OT's, and penalties dragging games out to the max! Next would be the coaching! Fine, you won, but what's that say about him when playing against some kid who's out there by himself, fighting Rafa, bad line calls, & Uncle Tony? It doesn't say much about his ability or confidence that he needs all that to pull matches out!

    ***LONDON -- Novak Djokovic the Int'l Tennis Federation's World Champions for '13.

    Djokovic captured the men's award for the 3rd straight year. He started the year by winning a 3rd straight AO (4th) and was runner-up at Wimbledon & USO. The 26-year-old Serb finished the season #2 in the ATP rankings with 7 tour titles.***

    OMG, Rafa'natics will lose it when this gets out! They will pump his stats and go totally apoplectic! I think it's great; esp. with Nole's "finishing kick!" It couldn't have been more impressive; taking on all comers! Until Rafa wins some events in the winter and add at least 1 WTF to his resume, the "GOAT" talk should be kept to a minimum! That would be like Sampras being thought as greater than Laver w/o a FO title!

    ***John McEnroe - “Doubles — why are we even playing it? … I look at it now and say, ‘What is this?’ I don’t even recognize what this is. I don’t know what doubles is bringing to the table. The doubles are the slow guys who aren’t quick enough to play singles. ...end up playing more in singles?”***

    OMG, my mouth just hung open from seeing the topic to the last post! I'm sorta appalled! He's like a Republican politician who bemoans social programs, taxes, and gov't in general, but abuse the system more than anyone while dumping on it all! Both Martina and John were deemed the best doubles' players of all time and now he tries to downplay the significants of the event?

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  75. ***Bush is not a miserable failure - Bush is a GRAND failure!***

    You know it! Conservatives continue to think history will redeem him in some way! I don't see it and most won't be able to forget the start of 2 wars, turning a surplus into a deficit, Katrina, Market crash, doubling of unemployment, and of course ignoring the signs of a pending "9/11!" He left this country in such a state, 200 years from now he'll still be up there with the worst world leaders in history! It's a given he's been the worst in our generation turning peace and prosperity into something unrecognizable; more like 1930's depression! To this day he hasn't taken responsibility for any of it! Maybe 60 Minutes asked him a top regret; none of this, but sorry he said to terrorist to "bring it on!" That's the best he could do! Normally a President grows into a job; W regressed! It's sad and pathetic for his entire family! Jeb may never be able to run now!

    ***Brings a new dimension to the phrase "Mission Accomplished."***

    ...and the mission continues really with all the stop/starts of "continuing resolutions," threatening the credit worthiness of the country waiting until the last possible moments before elevating the debt ceiling, and the refusal to pass job bills to deal with our crumbling infrastructure; hense lowering unemployment levels! Like I've been saying for years, conservatives and Republicans want to bankrupt the country to eliminate all gov't programs they hate like Social Security, Medicare, and now of course the "affordable care act!" I wouldn't spit on them if they caught fire! They do a disservice to the country, their constituients, and the future of the nation!

    ***Fuck Paul Ryan - Math isnt a strong suit of this ideology apparently. - If you have a hole in the bottom of a cup, do you try to fix it by pouring more into it at faster rate, simply keep pouring in and hope it fixes itself, or do you say "ok, I'll pour more in your glass as soon as you fix that hole?"
    ---

    We build a taller glass and stick a cherry pit in the hole.***

    Must be the choice of Republicans and conservatives! The debt was going down with a surplus after the Clinton administration! "W" and his idiot followers gave it all away, started 2 wars without paying for it, created a "prescription drug" bill unpaid for as well, and cut taxes to the bone! That was $11 Trillion ago; "thanks George!"

    ***Rush: 'Mock outrage' behind 'Duck Dynasty' firing***

    Funny topic; Rush would know all about faux or "mock outrage!" He's the biggest perpetrator! None of those hillbillies bother me; aren't important enough to even care! Bigotry, prejudice, and just plain ignorance is more prevalent than we'll ever know and showing that clown on tv just proves my point! "Knock yourself out Gramps! If any people are inheriting the Earth, it won't be you losers!"

    Watching Fox News and The McClaughlin group where Pat Buchanan was pumping up Russia's, Putin more than anybody; esp. over his own President! According to conservatives, Putin has pushed Obama and 'the US' off the world stage and is practically running things now! What a bunch of idiots! They will do and say anything to try and make this man look bad! It's so pathetic and juvenile! It won't help them in '14 or '16 for that matter! People in this country are naive and stupid, but I think Republicans have proved they can't be trusted with the well-being of the nation! Let them run their individual states into the ground and leave the country for the grown-ups to manage!

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  76. ***Its funny how everyone is making a hue and cry of Federer's #6 ranking and Wanting him to retire. Remember most athletes don't even reach there in their entire career. He has had a bad year by his standards. I believe he's due for one more good run.***

    It would be nice, but I think Roger sold his soul for 2012! Not sure he has anything left! If he comes back just to upset Nole, "go ahead and retire!" I hate that he actually has a losing record vs Rafa! Hard to call him the GOAT when at such a deficit; though numbers inflated with Nadal's victories on clay! If not for Rafa, Heaven knows where Roger's numbers would be with several FO's rather than just the one! He had his chances, but like any player out there, he's surrendered a few leads with points to go to close out a match! I see it happening more frequently; we'll see!

    ***He played a reduced schedule after playing a lot in '12. That doesn't mean he wasn't taking '13 seriously or expected to suck. But he realized playing so much in consecutive years likely wouldn't have been good in '13 and would esp. be bad in '14.***

    Watching TCC "Tennis Year In Review" and it's worse than I thought! It informed me that Roger reached only 3 finals, won 1 title, & missed playing a major final since 2001-02 beginning! It's a wonder he's in the top 10! I had no idea!

    ***Making 1 GS semifinal all but guarantees a top 10 place. It really doesn't take a whole lot at this point when you stop and think about it. He's a very great tennis player, and many of us are hoping to see still-great tennis from him in the next 2-3 years.***

    I think like Sampras, Federer will surprise us all and take one more major title; more than likely another Wimbledon! That's his best bet; esp. if other players are slipping around like this past tourney! When Madrid Open was on blue Hard-Tru a couple years ago, he flourished while Nole and Rafa went down in flames early!

    ***I thought Federer surprised us last year with the Wimbledon win after 2½ years & regaining #1. I'd be shocked if he got another major, but I don't think he's at all done and dusted. Getting back to #4 will be key, I think. Then, the "Draw Gods" could smile on him.***

    The subject matter about the rest of the tour falling on their faces came up! In the old days, the #1 player was upset at least once or twice in a major! #2-4 were also vulnerable due to the surface! That just doesn't happen these days! Due to the headcases amongst this group of losers, none of them have fulfilled their promise! We're still waiting for Del Po to do more than taking Nole or Roger to 5 sets, maybe getting to within 2 points of a match against Rafa only to give it all back! It's just disturbing to see this happen time and time again! If Roger can get a little help from the 2nd tier and take out Nole and Rafa, it would help him immensely; no doubt!

    ***You can say Roger has done everything now, but if Rafa gets to 18 then suddenly he hasn't done everything and his career is a whole hell of a lot less great.***

    Not to be contrarian for the hell of it, but Rafa's quality of wins just isn't there! Roger taking 5 straight Wimbledons and 7 overall is more historic than Rafa's 8 FO's! Add on 5 straight USO's, quite a few other major titles and Roger will always rate higher as far as I'm concerned! Rafa can aquire more majors, but his inconsistency and broken seasons should weigh against him even with his winning record over the definitive GOAT! What kind of career would Rafa have had if not for clay?

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  77. ***Why is Federer's record at Wimbledon better than Rafa's at RG? Grass is less and less a surface that modern players do well on. At least Rafa has to compete against clay-courters on clay. There really aren't any grass-court specialists any more. I will agree that Federer's plethora of wins across the other Slams besides RG is impressive. But Nadal has won on all surfaces in Slams, and that's not a puny thing, esp. given who he has beaten. Yes, there is a preponderance of wins on clay, but it's still a surface that tennis is played on.***

    It's hard to equate FO and AO majors to Wimbledon and USO due to so many players over the years who actually skipped Paris and Kooyong way back when! I grew up with Stefan Edberg the only top player who never missed a major; no matter his health issues! Nowadays the big 4 make it to almost every major except if they're injured; Nole & Roger anyway! The majors are balancing out, but Wimbledon on grass is still the barometer of greatness! A while back 3 of the 4 majors were on grass! It's not me but the so called experts that say it; just a consensus on their part it seems! Borg was great just winning the 6 FO's, but all those Wimbledons is why he's really remembered and put on a pedestal!

    ***I think you're wrong to put together why players used to skip AO, and if, and why, they skipped RG. Those are 2 different issues. AO was too far away. If players skipped RG, and I don't believe as many did, it was b/c they had no clay chops. I agree that we all think that Wimbledon is the Cathedral of tennis, and the Holy Grail, but let's not kid ourselves that there is anything like a grass game anymore. - That's just pure nostalgia or actual blindness to the game as it is played today.
    ---

    # of slams is most important, and then there are things such as if a player wins a calendar year slam or non calendar year slam that might add to it. Being king of 2 of the majors could add to it as well, right now there is only one undisputed king at a major and it is Nadal at RG. Nole will almost certainly have AO when all is said and done. Roger is tied at Wimbledon and badly underachieved in NY and is tied there with Sampras and Connors. If he's winning another 1 it will be at 1 of those venues and would break the tie.
    ---

    I don't understand how you can say that Roger 'badly underachieved' at the USO? He won 5 titles there. - The collapse to DP in the final was hideous though. That'd have been 6 titles in a row and then you throw in the total chokes the next 2 yrs to Nole and you are looking at a resume of at least 6 str. titles and 8 str. finals.***

    I can't say Roger underachieved, but he accomplished a lot before losing a few matches he shouldn't! Lendl played 8 USO finals, winning 3 straight! That was the best until Roger won his 5 in a row! Those chokes aren't surprising! Toward the end of some players' careers there's a little doubt residing in their heads and no lead is safe! I can't tell you how many majors, even regular titles Martina gave away due to burnout! In '87 she was making final after final, but found ways to give them away including FO final and Eastborne on grass where she was up 5-0 before going down in straight sets! She didn't pull it together until she got to her "sanctuary," Centre Court Wimbledon taking out Graf in straight sets, then again at the USO! She had a couple bad years, but managed to be a set up and break at '89 USO final before succumbing to Graf in 3! Towards the end of a career, it happens; some more than others!

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  78. ***The Eagles look unbeatable right now; Or at least they did last night. Almost felt sorry for da Bears!***

    Has it happened before; 4 teams going for a div. like that regardless if they won or lost the previous wk? I'm picking Phili and Chgo, but could live with GB winning! Like Stephen A. Smith "ribs" Skip Bayless everyday concerning the "Boys;" they'll find a way to break your heart! It has come down the the last wk most every year for them of late and they've systematically lost these games, even at home! They've won 1 playoff game in the last 17 years and that was more a fluke with Phili on it's last legs with McNabb! Romo's the "Peyton Manning" of the NFC except he won't ever get a "sniff" of a Superbowl!

    ***Folks the QB position is vastly overrated on an 11-man team as the Cowboys have amply demonstrated on both sides of the ball. Jerry Jones pays no-win Tony Romo $100 M with $50+ M guaranteed....Never mind not one of 'em done jack for 17 yrs, but remind us in the 5 yrs before then...Course in reminding us they don't remember diddly from 'em, you know back in the day when Jerry Jones would let Emmitt Smith sit out the start of the season cause no one man is the shit ...No sirrreeeeeee, now its $100 million for non-win Tony Romo and crossing our fingers for 8-8 in the once proud but currently sorry ass NFC East.***

    Well it's all become moot; ESPN just reported Romo out for the rest of the season! His back must have been a problem for a while now and they want to save him from getting killed in next week's game against Phili! Chicago and Denver's old backup, Kyle Orton will play in his stead!

    ***They are tearing up the div...the division nobody wants to win.***

    It's been like that for a while! I thought it was done as a powerhouse since the late 90's! It was then the 1st time the NFC East winner had been undefeated; the Giants at 7-0-1 followed by a weak Cowboy team going 8-0, but lost to div. WC Phoenix Cardinals in the playoffs! True enough Phili and NY represented sometimes, but were woefully inconsistant from year to year! Bringing up the Cowboys as America's Team is a colossal joke and I don't understand why they're even referenced before Thanksgiving! Whoever wins next week won't be able to do much against Seattle or San Fran regardless! If they can't get past a weak team like Detroit or backup QB in Green Bay, how far can they go?
    ---

    ***Fiero...which individual states (and cities) are being run into the ground?***

    Where should I begin; how bout the biggest losers in Texas? From the representation in gov't to how low on the literacy scale they've fallen, it just can't get much worse! The place is being turned into a toilet and no one seems to care! Perry and his corrupt ilk think nothing of accepting any and all garbage to be dumped in the state; for a price of course! Too bad it only benefits them personally and politically! TX had wildfires going on for quite a while due to the local incompetence of the Governor! He's making cuts in all services, but asks for volunteers to risk their lives and bring their own shovels! I guess that would be a good reason to half-arse educate those poor people down there! Health care is also desperately needed, but of course like most "red states," they've refused the increase in Medicare to the ACA locally! They have a neophyte like Cruz, but looking to downgrade even further with Rep. Stockman and to kick Sen. Cornyn to the curb! Idiots; "tea-bagging" their own highly regarded and conservative Senator so they'll have 2 morons in the senior house in DC! I would laugh if it weren't so sad and pathetic!

    ***lol... yeah. TX is really poorly run. That's why people are fleeing California for there.***

    Purely temporary! When radioactive materals, the poor air and water quality really get bad, we'll see if Californians continue to flee to Texas!

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  79. ***Damn, FOX NEWS is in on Porsha and the Underground Rail Road. The sad part about this is Our History as slaves is not taught in school. All too often you will find adults under 24 that know more about The Holocaust than they do American slavery.***

    Blame people and states who authorize the sale and purchase of history books from Texas! They are massaging the truth more and more about our country's abismal legacy when it comes to slavery and civil rights; Blacks & Indians! They systematically are excising a lot of facts and making it seem as if it wasn't as bad! With the less than academic students of today, soon it'll be forgotten altogether; sorta like Germans and the Holocaust! "Did it really happen?"

    ***This is true. Some schools have even begun to ban the colors red and green for the Xmas season. America is going into a dark place.
    ---

    I'm close to Porsha's age and we learned plenty about the Underground Railroad in the early/mid 90s. The system is not to blame for her stupidity on "RHWOA." I really do believe she is actin' the part at this point. Look where it is getting her; a spot on Fox News and #1 with Yahoo. It may not be for the best reasons but everyone knows it's best to be talked about than not talked about at all.
    ---

    I'm younger than Porsha, actually I got out of HS abt 2 yrs ago. My school didn't teach a lot, esp. abt Black history. But that does not excuse her from not knowing something this important, esp with her family history. School didn't teach about paying mortgage, but I still had to learn. For her to be in her 30s along with her family relevance to Black history, that is downright embarrassing.***

    Something has to be going on with this chick to be this dense and no one noticed how she hasn't "grown much" intellectually since jr high? I blamed her mother in another thread! I thought she said something about being in a sorority in college, but I can't imagine one that would accept her; even with a legacy! She can sign her name to a charge slip; that's about it! It's more than sad and pathetic that there are people running around like this so daft and uninformed! Poor children in bad neighborhoods you "give a pass;" what's her excuse?

    ***That's what they thought was HELPING "The Blacks" ... The Aborigines are able to keep their heritage now with their traditions and tell their stories of overcoming slavery ... But it seems as if African Americans are not! It would seem like some generations wish to forget about what our forefathers and mothers did to continue our bloodlines.***

    I hadn't read that before about Australia! The closest thing I remember about race and "down under" is with Evonne Goolagong, an Aussie tennis player! She supposedly was Aboriginal with siblings much darker; she was olive-like and beautiful! She related a story about playing a local tournament when she was a teenager! Her opponent called her the "N' word" of all things and I didn't understand it! I guess they had problems "way back when" and I had no idea!

    ***Yeah it was Bad in AUS ... And the fact that it spilled over into the early 1900's and still til this day they have issues with race in the 'down under.' BUT AT THE VERY LEAST they hold on to their African Culture. It seems like we as Americans do everything in our power to distance ourselves from it.***

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  80. ***Your negative opinion of Fox News notwithstanding, I stand by my contention that this is a "manufactured" issue. As I said: much ado about nothing.***

    Well Fox would know about manufactured issues; they do it enough! Can we count them all: Benghazi, war on Xmas, Acorn, ACA, jobs, and Dems in general? They're not credible on any issue; if ever and I've been watching since '97! They've become an embarrassment and are relentless in attacking the other networks since they feel so "put upon!" O'Reilly & Hannity spend half their shows railing against Sharpton, Matthews, Maddow, Shultz, & Jon Stewart of all people! He exposes them nightly so a comedian is on their hit list as well! They talk about free speech on FNN all the time, defending the "hate-speech" of that hillbilly on "Duck Dynasty," but berated Martin Bashir out of his job because he spoke about the idiocy of Palin! They're totally full of shit! Nuff said!

    ***It is disturbing that someone can be so incredibly dumb and in a position such as Megyn. Truly a case of someone getting by simply on their looks. - That is true for so many talking heads these days.***

    Especially the bottle blonds of FOX! Even the most educated sound like idiots towing the corporate line! You're so right about being ugly inside! That facade of Kelly's has fallen away a few times when she thinks the network is under attack! It just looks so desperate and pathetic!

    ***Bill O'Reilly does not consider himself a Republican although he apparently was once registered as one.***

    O'Reilly's a lying sack of shit! He thinks by proclaiming himself an independent he won't be called out on some of his BS! He's not impartial and he's fooling no one; esp. Jon Stewart and Ed Shultz!

    ***I said he doesn't consider himself a Republican. I'm not a huge fan of Hannity so I won't bother defending him here. You're calling O'Reilly a bigot why? And why have you been watching O'Reilly for 16 plus years if he's such a liar?***

    I'll tell you like I tell everyone else; if I'm going to bitch and moan about something or someone, I read or watch it! He's not a full on bigot maybe, but he's made some very nasty comments about Blacks, women, immigrants, and the poor! That's the essense of a real bigot; not as much racial as much as preferring his own kind in status and intellect!

    ***Megyn Kelly causes innocent school to get death threats - A typically exploitive Fox News Barbie doll.***

    Ya'll must have forgotten Bill O'Reilly causing the death of Doctor Tiller; calling him a baby killer! He has no regrets over his nightly inciting of some lunatic who shot him at his church a couple years ago! They're all despicable people who have no shame or apology for their actions!

    ***Megyn acts like a complete airhead, but it's hard to tell how much of that is just an act and how much of it is her genuinely being a bit of a ditz.***

    Intellect has little to do with the "talking heads" of this network! They've all signed a pact with the Devil and threw their credibility and morals out the window; period, enough said! Brit Hume can't be that dumb, but spouts stuff quite unintelligible! Greta and Megan are highly educated, but they don't show it much with the fluff pieces and of course misleading news items!

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  81. ***Can we all please make an agreement that neither American party are Nazis? Last time I looked it up, neither Republicans nor Democrats advocate genocide.***

    You sure? The Republican war on gays, women, Blacks, immigrants, the ACA, and the poor come pretty close! They seem to hate everyone and everybody that don't look and act like them! Sorry, but I'm not going the way of "Duck Dynasty" I don't care what they say and do! I don't want to be a part of their 47%!

    ***...You prefer the Fox News "LibRul" so you can feel better about dismissing the strawmen they prop up.
    ---

    Your wacky conspiracy theories notwithstanding, I happen to know many liberals. Do you think I live alone in a cabin in the woods and only see the world through cable or satellite TV? I hate to burst your bubble (since you're so sure you've got me pegged and all), but I actually interact with real, live people. Not just on the internet. Your premise that I "don't actually talk to Liberals" is as arrogant as it is silly.***

    Oh didn't you know that if you're a conservative or Republican, you're not allowed to listen to us "Godless, liberal progressives?" If only they knew how stupid that sounds esp. since it's liberal thinking that gave women and Blacks the right to vote among other things in this country! If I were a Republican, I wouldn't be bragging about it either these days! Quoting the deceased "Prince Of Darkness," Bob Novak, Republicans haven't had an original idea since they freed the slaves! "Stick up for "Duck Dynasty" and the rest of those losers!"
    ===

    ***...I never hope The Cowboys lose period, and even if we get a higher draft pick, have you forgotten who's drafting the players? As for a better coach, Jerry said this morning that Garrett isn't going anywhere and he thinks his future with the team is bright.***

    Like it matters! I've watched this team morph into a caricature of a real football team since Jimmy left! Jerry squeezed out one more Superbowl put of his players before falling into winning obscurity! The team is talked about all year round, but little "good" about the organization! From the top down, they've been a colossal joke paying players millions of dollars to fail time and time again! I think it was Bob Ryan on "PTI" or "ATH" stating that The Cowboys shouldn't even be mentioned until Thanksgiving for obvious reasons! If they couldn't get over the hump with Parcells, when will they ever? Will they need Jer to pull an "Al Davis" to finally move on?

    ***Well that's just the thing, they were all but there with Bill. Jerry made sure he was gone once they were in a position to win. Rather than have a real HC leading the team he assembled, Jerry made sure to replace him with a yes man so that if the Cowboys won it would be all Jerry!
    ---

    Lions, year after year they suck at being a .500 team!***

    Tell that to the Dallas Cowboys and their poor fans! Year in and year out they are spoken about as SB contenders only to collapse and fail in Dec.! No lead is safe, whether home or away, superior athletes succumbed to mediocrity and ineptitude when it counts!

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  82. ***Fed's shot selection serving for that 2nd set was abysmal in the USO '09 final. That was the worst time probably in his career he ever hit a crap dropshot. Why even hit a damn dropshot there let alone one that bad? - ...after winning the first set, Fed took the feet off the accelerator, considering that Del Potro's a greenhorn and paid the price.***

    Well Roger miscalculated by a lot! If he had just seen the highlights of how Del Po destroyed Rafa a couple days before, it should have foretold what was possible! He took for granted his own legend and probably thought he could coast to another major; was so on a roll in terms of his overall streaks!

    ***Federer's going to wait until the end of IW tourney before making any announcements about his schedule. He has already decided on Brisbane, AO, Dubai and IW. So, with respect to Miami and Monte Carlo, I believe it will be all or nothing for Fed.***

    He had better stick to last season's schedule! If he overdoes it and plays all those extra matches, forget making the 2nd week of the FO and Wimbledon! He has to work too hard to win early round matches as it is; "if" he wins them! The best thing is to limit his schedule, maybe skip FO altogether, and concentrate on taking another Wimbledon; retire as "THE GOAT!"

    ***Nole's keeping his schedule short (he plays in only 16 events which is 2 short of full schedule) yet maximizing the # of ranking points that he can possibly obtain by playing in events that pay off more (such as Monte Carlo non-mandatory ATP 1000).***

    Non-mandatory due to it being 2 of 9 Masters that a top players can skip? I have a faint recollection there is a minimum of events they can get away with playing besides excuse of injury! Nadal owned Monte Carlo until this year! Nole only has to win Cincinnati one of these days to have at least one of every 1000 event! Nole's had a stanglehold on Asian swing in the fall, so it's going to be difficult for Rafa to match him since he tends to fade later in the year! If memory serves, he's only played in 2 or 3 WTF finals and in one of them, he actually lost all 3 round robin matches! That's called working too hard all year! Nole's like Roger and plans his schedule well! He had a great year, but he missed out on a number of tournament wins where he was in final after final, but couldn't close the deal!

    Nole'll have nightmares over that FO semi for the rest of his life! I still haven't been able to watch it! He would have had a nice easy final against Ferrer and clamined his last prize! I've seen that happen so often; player unable to win a title he really wanted! Lendl is haunted by "no Wimbledon" on his resume! He trained well, but it's not about being a workhorse! You need luck, sometimes an upset of someone in their path, and so far only Federer has had his prayers answered by Soderling taking Rafa out at '09 FO! This is why I have so little respect for the ATP tour pros! They've allowed the top 4 players to own just about every major event with only Del Po breaking off 1 USO over Roger! That's so lame! The top 4 are great players no doubt, but the best of the rest are jokes masquerading as professionals! When Murray was down 2 sets to 0 against Verdasco, I told people to relax; will choke it away! I've seen him do it enough times! Sure enough, he gave it all back and the rest is history! "Congrats Andy!"

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  83. ***Serena has a chance of passing Evert and Navratilova, but it would require at least a few more Slams. While she's only 1 behind them, we have to take everything into account, incl. competition. While we could argue that the level of tennis today is higher, Serena never really had another great player at her peak during the same period of time. Henin was close and Clijsters had her moments, but Graf first had Navratilova then Seles and Martina and Evert had each other. Evert had King, then Navratilova. She still could become the GOATess, but she'd really have to pass Steffi's record imo. I have a hard time seeing her winning 5 or 6 more Slams.
    ---

    Her greatest consistancy is in another statement you made:

    "Serena's reign of greatness has been both the longest of any great player - having won Grand Slams over a remarkable 15 year span (and counting)" and: "She'd probably have 20-25 Slams by now and have surpassed the others as the clear GOATess."

    I don't think there is any doubt in anyone who knows tennis that this would have happened were it not for those injuries and personal problems you mentioned. And this in no way takes away from her abilities. And Graf also had times when she had no truly great player in her way. That player was taken out of the equation.***

    You're kidding right? lol! Martina won her last major approaching 50 at the USO in mixed doubles (59th)! No one will come close to her longevity! Serena can never overtake her when all is said and done and I wish people would stop trying! You give her excuse of injury, but people overlook and discount Seles being stabbed in the back! I have no words for the hypocrisy and naivette! - I jumped on the Sampras bandwagon for a while even though Laver had 2 Grand Slams to his name; 1 in pre-Open era! Federer made it all moot when he overtook Pete so completely taking a FO; playing several finals while Sampras never got there!

    ***It's hard to choose btw Seles, who in the era of Navratilova and Graf, won 8 of 9 consecutive Slams before she was elim. by Graf's fan. Martina bested Evert and also had a fair share later playing w/ Graf and Seles in the competition. But it did happen what happened in Hamburg 20 years ago so Navratilova will be remembered as the best of all times.***

    That's why I can't put Graf ahead of Navratilova even though she has more "single" majors! No way would Graf have had her way with the tour if Monica was still around! It wasn't like an injury or apathy was involved; a stabbing of all things in our sport!

    ***Graf would have won more majors than Navratilova regardless of what happened to Seles (who wasn't actually killed and came back to contest major finals).***

    That's very cavalier of you concerning a child being stabbed in the back in public for the world to see! I was no fan of Seles and the way she played, but even I couldn't overlook that; esp. since the guy got off scott-free for the most part! B/C she never went back to testify, I think he only stayed in a clinic or mental facility of some sort for a couple years and he's running around now! Germany's justice system at work!

    ***The way the German justice system let down Seles has nothing to do with Graf.
    ---

    Fiero, Considering those players like Svetlana, Safina, JJ etal; they might have majors or more majors, were it not for Serena who beat them in finals.***

    Outside of the Williams, Henin while semi-retired, and injuries to other top players, how soon we forget who held #1 ranking for well over a year w/o a major; Caroline Woz! OMG; what a joke on the WTA! That has never happened before! Just shows how things have fallen out with JJ, Safina, and Woz holding onto the top ranking without a sniff of a major!

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  84. ***...in the battle of Dinos to start the year, the older Dino won! Congrads to Hewitt; win over Fed in Brisbane final. - Classic viewing; the old Chinese torture of bamboo sticks under the fingernails might actually be more enjoyable. Definitely goes for set 1 anyway.***

    It's not that I'm no longer a fan of Federer, but if he isn't going to take in consideration his aging body and possible mental slippage, I can't and won't feel sorry for him! Martina went through the same thing back in '94! If it wasn't for upsets galore at Wimbledon, it would have been a horrendous retirement with her going out early again and again! That last major final was a nice "going away" present; "thanks Lori McNeil!" {She took Graf out in the 1st round}

    ***The shocking thing isn't decline, but the level of it. His 2012 was great for a guy his age; Hell it was a great year by any standards, but truly I never expected him to go downhill so fast since then. Back problems or not last year, I wouldn't have envisaged him playing that bad even approaching 36 years of age. Anyway, first week of the year and plenty of time and room for improvement hopefully.
    ---

    This! I never imagined seeing Federer playing at this low level until maybe age 35-36 which would figure to be his last year. 32 is old, but I never expected him to be this awful.***

    You see that kind of thing all the time with the 2nd tier players! All of a sudden, things seem to click! They make a major semi or 2 and actually make the WTF, but you can't expect it to last! I'm surprised Roger's been able to hold on this long because I think overall players are so much better! Their main problem is finishing; mentally deficient or lack of training! Some aren't accustomed to winning and it takes it's toll over a time! I don't expect someone like Wawrinka to continue his streak; notwithstanding his efforts of late!

    ***Probably mentally burnt out to be honest. He's played a ridiculous amount of matches for a 32 year old.***

    That was Martina's problem at the end! Obviously it wasn't physical since she was able to return 6 whole years later; culiminating in several major doubles' wins! The last at '06 USO in MD with Bryan bro as she approached 50! Not sure Fed can do that, but he might want to concentrate on some doubles if he really wants to continue playing on the tour! Singles' streaks aren't in the cards for the old guy; I don't think! He sold his soul to the Devil in '12 to have his last with Wimbledon his crowining glory!

    ***I love when players defy categorization. They claimed Borg would never win on grass..5 Wimbys later; how did the experts do on that one? They also claimed Nadal could never win Wimbledon. It was difficult as hell, but he did it; twice. I don't know of another sport where changing conditions such as weather, surface, ball, and setting have such a dramatic impact on the results.***

    Who said Nadal wouldn't win on grass? I know I said he won't be dominating on the surface! It's not like the old days when the grass was so choppy, uneven, and slick! If Nadal had played the event in the 70's or 80's, he might not have gotten out of the 1st round! There's a big difference now; esp. with the generic power game being played well behind the baseline! That's what made Borg's accomplishments epic even today; 5 in a row with no warmup event and after playing and winning on FO clay!

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  85. ***Why is this difficult for leftists to understand? It isn't that we want our military everywhere, it's that we want the world safe for us. If people are training to kill us here with the forbearance of their gov'ts THERE, then we need to be there to kill them before they show up in our 109th story office building or in the mall or whatever. We don't want to be saying later, "why didn't we do something?" We want to "drain the swamps" in the words of Condi Rice.
    ---

    Who can beat Hillary? - I don't think I'd vote for Hilary or Joe.***

    Republicans are too busy shooting each other in the F'kn head to really be a problem for Hillary! I'm no big fan of hers, but after all these years, it's an embarrassment that a woman hasn't gotten a sniff of the presidency! The most backwards countries in the world have had female leaders; even India and Scotland! They're due regardless if you hate her or not! She can't be any worse than that loser "W!" He was so bad, he elected Obama; that's his real legacy besides the collapse of our economy!

    ***... though I can't remember anything like Limbaugh, Hannity, or Beck making fun of a kid's race or his family...The point is that MSNBC has such a stable of hatred that it's gone beyond anything that can even be noticed. No one on CNN acts like Toure or this woman or the red faced drunk whose name escapes me. In 2012, FoxNews spent 85% of their time on News... 15% on opinion. It was the opposite on MSNBC.***

    Well you're either in complete denial or have the weakest memory out here! Rush even made fun of Chelsea Clinton's looks when she was 14! All of them are hypocritical bastards; esp. on Fox!

    ***...Republican NJ Governor's staff shuts down GWB: OMG!!!!! News explosion!!!! And I'll bet the farm the MSM won't let this one go, so long as Christie is some sort of a threat against their Party! Christie immediatley fires his Asst Chief of Staff and totally takes the blame!***

    Typical; more deflection by invoking "so called" scandal someplace else! Your boy Joe Scarborough went at it within 5 min. this morning bringing up Lois Lerner! It was pathetic when he did and it's pathetic when others do it here! I seriously doubt Obama went out of his way to order this woman to do anything; or his admin. for that matter! The fact is, it is standard procedure to investigate each and every "so called" non-profit and the other side is checked just as much if not more! Get over it; Obama is YOUR PRESIDENT regardless of your dislike, if not hatred for the man! He beat Romney into the ground easily and the "right" just can't get over it! You guys would have more credibility if so many didn't say whacky things like he isn't a citizen, born in Kenya, with a conspiracy laced tirade that makes mental ward patients green with envy! This is why the media and the people don't hold Obama responsible for so much; the constant over-reach which is so insane! One of these days these people will act right and try and grow the country rather than tear it down! I won't hold my breath! These losers have been acting this way going back 100 years! We would be so much more well off if not for the nitwits in this country in positions of power like Boehner and McConnell now! I'm no fan of Obama, but people are going to take his side since he's a lot more credible and makes better sense!

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  86. ***I'll be honest, that is sorta amusing, the trolling against Christie for this GWB controversy. I don't think it was right or funny though. This is the biggest non-scandal since Clinton's BJ.
    ---

    Idk, the #'s they're putting on the lost productivity is $1.3 B and it endangered people's lives. It was an intentional, very reckless stunt for no purpose other than screwing with the Mayor of a town who didn't support him. My gut instinct tells me that Christie's smarter than to pull something like that and it probably was an aide who was behind it. But if it's tracked back to him somehow, I think it could really hurt him long term.***

    I wonder would those supporters of Christie be so cavalier if it was one of their 5 y.o.'s stuck on a school bus for 4 hrs? These people need to take this a lot more seriously! On the wk of 911, to do something like this on the busiest bridge in the world for 4 days is the height of recklessness! This is not going away anytime soon, no matter how insignificant it is to his supporters!

    ***And which scandal is more disgusting, 4 dead Americans on Hillary's watch or a traffic jam in NJ? Right. ...You tell us...Puurfect..***

    Hmmm; 4 dead Americans in the Benghazi CIA HQ where Rep. Congress cut over $200 M in security for foreign embassies compared to Christie's GWB shenanigans where there's $1.3 B lost in productivity, ambulance unable to get to a 91 y.o. woman who died in Fort Lee, 5 y.o.'s stuck on a school bus for 4 hours, and now a class action suit against the state! Let's try and keep things in perspective!

    ***This is the 1st I've seen this one, though I did read of emerg. vehs (police & ambulance) being snarled. I'm not an expert on this aspect of law, but if it's determined the woman died as a result of this, I gather those party to it may be subject to prosecution.***

    To get Christie's ex-staff members to come clean, they prob. will be threatened w/ felony manslaughter among other charges! Obstruction of justice and conspiracy is also on the table since that was a fed bridge affected! This is not going away anytime soon!

    ***Interesting point. The East end is in NY, the West end in NJ. Idk whether that makes it federal or not. Doesn't the NY Port Authority have jurisdiction in both States?***

    We're talking interstate commerce being affected, which makes it a federal case!

    ***Christie likes to stick his finger in other Republicans’ eyes. He unfairly demonized Reps. upset that the Sandy Relief bill was stuffed with unrelated pork. Christie’s figurative wet, sloppy tongue kiss w/ Obama just before the election was dispiriting (and gross!). I get all that, and I can’t really blame people for enjoying watching him twist in the liberal media windstorm as they seek to take him out of the '16 race.***

    Funny how some criticize the MSM for covering this story, but Fox started w/ the usual IRS and Benghazi "so called" scandals! Those are old news items while this is more current with the GWB! They totally glossed over the facts of lost revenue ($1.3B), endangering citizens when "1st responders" couldn't get around, and that 5 y.o.'s were stuck on their buses for 4 hrs! I'm no fan of either Obama or Christie, but to be fair, Christie's actions, or the actions of his staff affected everyday Americans in the most callous and reckless of ways for 4 days! A fire could have occurred, there could have been a bomb threat on the bridge since it was week of 911, and people lost money from their jobs! Whether he knew about it or not, it doesn't matter; he's made a big deal out of being a hands-on manager who thinks he's ready for the Presidency! "Fat chance" after this stupid stunt! It's so easy to undercut anything he has to say now or in the future since he was such a bully; and it's finally caught up to him!

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  87. Issa has no credibility, embarrassing himself week in and week out! He looks like a real fool, hypocritically complaining about Obama's actions when he supported "W" to the hilt; to our detriment! Screw the "right-wing!"

    ***And that's basically your whole ideology..."screw the right-wing"...regardless of real facts and reality...***

    Way back when I split my vote, giving support to many a local and nat'l Rep, but overall these people have lost their freakin' minds! By the time Clinton came around, they had no regard for their jobs, constituients, and the country! It was all about trying to make him and his wife look bad! Now they show what bigots they are railing against Obama, making out like he's some foreigner, a traitor, socialist, & worse! I wouldn't spit on a Rep. if he was on fire! They are disgusting animals who prove they don't give a shit about anything but themselves! Anything that can be made up to try and embarrass a Dem can be overlooked in comparison to the behavior of any Rep of the last 20 yrs! At their nat'l conventions, you have to cringe watching their act! I can't tell you how much they've disappointed me; even McCain, Graham, and other moderates! I couldn't think of the stuff they actually say on tv now! Disturbed; all of them!

    ***Christie wouldn't expect any favors from Obama as far a I am concerned so I never implied that, but maybe he implied that to Christie since he was the only Gov in the disaster region willing to go for a photo opt with Obama, which The Prez did want at all costs.***

    So much is made about Christie's love-fest with Obama last oct! Romney had no chance with the more rational people out there to see the facts! This was all about what a rotten candidate they put up to go against the man! The more couth people of this country, even if they didn't like Obama, weren't going to take a chance on an unfeeling idiot like Mitt! I never had any respect for him and if you're more honest with yourself, you'd admit the same! His 47% comment didn't help him, his lack of empathy, and outright misinformation killed his candidacy! The problem was, you really haven't had a respectable nominee in years; McCain too freakin' old and senile (selecting Palin as a running mate), Gingrich (enough said), Santorum was labeled an idiot by his own Senate staff, and what can be said about someone like Huntsman who leaves his post to run against the man who put him there? I can go on, but I'd end up writing a f'kn book of how embarrassing the "right" has been for quite a while! The hypocrisy and lies just can't be overlooked for long; even by Fox News! Christie has no chance btw!

    ***LOL, maybe instead of focusing on those people that didn't make it to Presidency you should focus on your man that is President Fiero? ...Finally after 6 yrs in office Obama has signed an actual budget for our nation while saddling our nation with 15 trillion more debt. He signed a full troop withdrawal agreement in Iraq but is now sending in drones and special forces to fight again b/c he was wrong. He is costing thousands of American lives in Afghanistan while at the same time working out a deal to turn the country back over to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
    ---

    I don't make so much of their desire to both get out into the dirt and try to convince voters they would work hand in hand to fix everything. That's what cheesy politicians do. I don't recall too many news organizations making a big deal out of it either. ...They are 2 politicians of the same cloth offering a photo opt for their campaigns hoping that the voter would see them as if they "really care" and vote for them, while I always doubted either of them would do anything or even care about the promises they made.***

    Very nice! Just totally gloss over who put us in this situation! I suppose you think "W" had no part in this recession, starting 2 wars, and giving huge tax breaks to rich folks!

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  88. ***Good post, Fiero. BTW, why do you no longer post in tennis forum? You used to post religiously in the ESPN tennis forum; what happened?***

    Been paying more attention to politics and trying to figure out why things are getting worse, not better? As you can tell I have no love for Rep and cons who would rather trash the country than work with this man! Obama's no fave of mines, but at my age, you were supposed to at least respect the office! With a Black man in office, they feel they can do and say anything and I get more and more disgusted with pols everyday! If I visit abroad, I'm more embarrassed to say where I'm from! We've fallen so far with the pettiness and vilification of progressive ideas! Idiots are returned to power again and again and I can't understand how people can complain but do nothing about it; OLD NEWS really!

    ***The entire argument against the "Tea Party" from the GOP est. is an attempt to excuse their unbelievable failure in '12. The Reps squandered more than $1 B on the most winnable Presidential race in modern history. They had a deep slate of "electable" Senate candidates who all went down to defeat. Rather than accepting responsibility for their failure, GOP consultants are pointing fingers at cons, trying to distract the attention of their donors.***

    Preach! They're shooting each other in a circular firing squad in the "fk'n" head! Obama has made enough mistakes, but the constant over-reach of his opposition trying to malign, undercut, and thwart his agenda, the Rep party has almost made itself a marginal party! B/c of their own incompetence, Obama and the Dems have been able to run roughshot over the political theatre; which really has saved the country btw! If we listened and paid heed to what they have to say, heaven knows where we would be now! It's all been incapsulated in what we're seeing now w/ Christie of NJ! Like Nixon, he was on his way to a landslide victory, but it wasn't enough! He had to threaten, bully, and take revenge on his non-supporters and it's all coming out now! The state ad he insisted incl. his hideous family at the people's expense, using his power and influence to take retribution against mayors who didn't kiss his rings, & the possible criminal behavior of his closest staff members! I wonder what he'll say during his "State of the State" speech tonight? Can he apologize enough?

    ***Hopefully, the propaganda wing of the Rep. Party will now take a break from hyperventilating on Benghazi and pick on Christie who's accused of using state resources to punish those who failed to endorse him. The cons. George Will compared him to Nixon using the nation's resources to crush his enemies. I am not holding my breath there.***

    Well listening to Morning Joe the last 2 days, he's still being juvenile, deflecting Christie's indiscretions by listing what he called the MSM's love affair with Obama; ignoring the scandals of the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, and the ACA rollout! Scarborough totally overlooks "W's" prescription drug benefit had the same growing pains and wasn't paid for btw! They continue to harp on 4 deaths at CIA HQ 2 years ago, but never mention 5000+ kids who've died unnecessarily with Bush's vendetta against Saddam Hussein! They say all this increase in the nat'l debt is Obama's when the more knowledgeable know a lot of this was taken off the books during Bush's term! The deficits have never come down as much and fast under Obama, but he gets no credit!

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  89. ***Ya gotta luv Jimmy Fallon & The Boss ...
    http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/video/bruce-springsteen-and-jimmy-fallon-gov-christie-traffic-jam-born-to-run-parody/n45079/ ***

    This is just the warmup for '16! The MSM, Dems, or other detractors won't have to do or say much at all! The Republican party and the other candidates vying for the same spot will excoriate Christie with a lot more venom! His pompous attitude made no friends over the years and it's all going to come back to bite him in the arse! Christie has already gone through the process when veted by Romney for possible VP consideration! From what I heard, he wasn't forthcoming, showed up to events very late, and had little respect for the process! He expects people to cow to his every whim and ignore his foibles! That's just not going to happen and he's getting a real taste of what it means to be a national figure with this latest scandal!

    ***Ice-T is pro-2nd Amendment***

    Be as pro-2A as you want, but if there's a mishap or accident with it, you have to pay the piper w/o complaining! In Fla a few days ago, some retired police captain shot a man dead b/c he was texting his daughter's babysitter! That fool should go right to jail, no questions or trial needed, but his attorneys will probably use justification of some sort! I hate Fla and have never gone due to their gun policies going back to the 70's! It was actually permissable for anyone to walk around packing; as long as it wasn't concealed! It looked pretty stupid with some woman walking down the street in a nice blouse with a shoulder-holster on! My step-father's brother lives in one of those gated communities, but I still haven't considered a visit! After electing such a shady character as Gov., I just can't trust anything about the place!

    ***I've considered moving to Fla. I went on vacation and loved it, but the conservative yahoos running the state give me pause. Of course Kansas has the worst conservative yahoo of all in our Gov., Sam Brownback. Can't wait for the next election. Even the conservatives here are tired of him and his ilk.***

    Years ago, I really didn't care what party someone was affiliated with until the Clinton era! The derangement syndrome against him was full blown by the "right" and I barely talk to people who would accept the tactics and policies of these people! There base seems to hate everyone outside of them; gays, women, immigrants, unions, pro-abortionist, lawyers, etc.! I didn't find out until 20 years later that my college roommate was Republican, but he was embarrassed by them since he's gay! Why he's stayed with them, he still can't explain besides it was a result of where he lived; a conservative suburb of Chicago! To me that's no excuse especially when his own kind have been in the crosshairs of these people for the last 10 years! Since Obama's become President, the fever's grown and it's unbelieveable the hatefilled rants that go unapposed or apologized for and we haven't spoken in years! It's like they say, don't talk politics or religion; it'll break up the closest of families and friends!

    From Palin through McConnell and Boehner; these people care more about ideology than their own country! They undermine our core principles everytime they speak and I won't accept people that think it's ok to hate on the poor, unemployed, minorities, women, and others they deem not worthy! Screw them all!

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  90. ***Rockstar Tennis: The Fab 4 - Which rock/pop star would be your reflection of the Big 4?***

    Call me old fashioned and nostalgic, but there's been only one "rock star" in tennis he's BJORN BORG! There's been no other that I can think of and may never happen again! In basketball you've had a few w/ Jordon, Magic, and now LeBron, but Borg transcends them all worldwide! He's been retired for 30 yrs & we're still talking about his accomplishments! What other tennis player can do that; maybe Laver due to 2 Grand Slams? The most knowledgeable still pause before moving off of Borg! He's the only 1 I can put in this category; even for fun!

    ***Amen Brother - ...on the other hand I disagree. There was only 1 TRUE rockstar in tennis and it was VITAS GERULAITIS. He actually played in a rock band, drove a Rolls and a Lamborghini, partied pretty much every night. He was the ultimate playboy of the tennis world. Borg looked the part, Vitas acted it.***

    WHO? :-) I quite know who he is! I understand what you're talking about, but his "rock star" status was limited to this country Bro; sorry! He got as high as #4 in the world and only took one AO when most top players didn't even attend! I loved the way he played, but his only weapon was his speed of foot and court sense! Not to be a total jerk about it, but his rock star status is only sustained in some minds by the fact he died young and unexpectedly! It was an unfortunate accident, but that's the best I can give you!

    Seems as if the last couple generation of players have strayed from music and started gambling! Every once in a while I'll come across the name of a retired player at a "hold 'em" poker tourney! The biggest star and former #1 I've seen is Yevgeny Kafelnikov at a table on tv!

    ***At the risk of looking too far ahead, should Williams reach 18 in Melbourne, her next challenge would be reaching Graf's Open Era record of 22 and then Court's all-time record of 24. But for that we would have to wait until '15 or '16... Do you think she can do it?***

    Reaching and surpassing both Evert and Navratilova in majors will be huge, but most knowledgeable tennis experts realize their careers will always transcend all others due to their longevity and winning more than 100+ tourneys; Nav w/ 167 Singles, 177 doubles while Evert just 10 behind in singles! If Serena can maintain until she's 40, I doubt she'll come close to many records of these legendary players! Not to forget Margaret Court who along with Navratilova also have the "box set" of majors!

    ***Q. Who among all the women you've seen play over the last 50+ years could have handled Serena routinely? Billie Jean King: Nobody...Every Generation gets better.***

    Who said anything about handling Serena routinely? It appears Serena has been her best "worst" enemy w/ layoffs, not being in condition, and illness! Illnesses may not have been avoided, but her lack of training certainly had something to do with being out of condition, possibe injuries, and losing to players I'd never heard of! She had a responsibility being the top ranked woman and I don't think she took it seriously until the last 2 years, giving us players like Safina, Wozniacki, and Jankovic as WTA's #1 ranked women w/o a sniff of a major! That had never happened in the past and I lay that on the doorsteps of both Venus and Serena being part time players! They were touted as the best of all time, but didn't act like it when they could have done more! Again, illness did not have everything to do with this state of affairs, I know and you know that, so please don't take offense at this rebuke! Just stating the facts as a historian of tennis since the 70's!

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  91. ***If Monfils is the toughest person in the way of a GS final, it's the easiest path in history; bar none. This isn't worthy of a poll, but anyways it will be Rafa in an easy 3. Not sure why/how Monfils is being so badly overrated. - He has all the strokes mastered so I beg to differ in regards to him being overrated. Monfils just isn't 100% mentality focused and committed to get to the top. Trust me, Rafa or Fed will tell you, this guy is very talented, very dangerous, and not badly overrated.***

    The score against Nadal tells a different story! Thank Gawd I didn't stay up to watch it! The top half is still tougher it seems to me! If Ferrer was in Rafa's half of the draw, it would be the easiest route to the final! For a change Nole got a break; no Fed, Tsonga, or Murray in the bottom half! Don't get me wrong, Wawrinka and Berdych are no slouches, but he's proved he can make it through them for the most part when he's on his game; even if it takes 5 sets when pushed! As a thread I created last year, the name of the trophy should be named after Djokovic if he takes it again! No one in the open era has been as successful with successive wins at this event!

    ***Serena goes down in flames vs Ana Ivanovic at '14 AO: 4-6, 6-3, 6-3***

    I've been hearing and reading so much about top players after 30+; seems to be coming true! It's getting harder for Serena! People need to get off the "invincible" crap! She looked very ordinary! I wouldn't have picked Ana, but Serena wasn't moving her feet! It was truly telling with all those UFE; esp. on the backhand!

    ***She did look a little ordinary today, or certainly, 'vincible;' Off-day. But if you think she hasn't been mostly looking invincible for the last year or so, you haven't been paying attention.***

    I don't watch much ladies' tennis with all the ball bashing and grunting! It's just ugly tennis at times; esp. with Aza and Sharapova! The volume definitely needs to be lowered when they're on court playing! It's ugly tennis at its worst!

    ***You don't know what you're missing - I find men's tennis boring (robotic), and lacking in emotions and full commitment.***

    They're hard to watch as well, but at least I can tolerate Nole! I'll miss Federer when he's gone! There are a few I can follow and appreciate their abilities, but most of the top players are unwatchable; esp. Nadal, Berdych, and Ferrer! Again, I find it "ugly," unimaginative, and graceless tennis!

    ***"Fair enough".. I got you now. Just chill and you will enjoy women tennis more than the men's; it's a promise Women's tennis is much more technical and thoughtful and suits you more.***

    It was women's tennis that I truly admired and emulated when I was a kid! I never got enough of watching Goologong, Court, King, Wade, Navratilova, and Shriver since I chipped and charged all day long! I just pulled out '74 USO final with Evonne and Billy Jean on grass! It was heaven! "Gets" were true "gets" back then; not this joke of a game with new tech rackets and strings!

    ***Having said that Ana still deserves full credit. Any weakling would have given up after losing the 1st set to Serena. She hung it there and stuck to the game plan courageously.***

    Well at least Serena wasn't as totally classless as her sister Venus saying, "she didn't beat me, I beat myself!" I hope someone sat her arse down way back when and told her what sour grapes that sounded like; more than a couple times! Tacky; very tacky!

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  92. ***serena is done... While there is no trend here, Serena is surely marked. Everybody wants to bring their best against her and that is how it should be. Hats off to all the girls who make her life difficult.
    ---

    Ana played extremely well and took this from Serena. This was not Serena playing poorly; Ana just flat out hit her and pressured her--she did not wilt. Her FH was as strong as Serena's and the double faults never materialized.***

    You covered it! Ana just played well and her serve was solid for a change! She normally has a lot more double-faults and her usual nerves didn't materialize! Serena needed help in getting through this match and Ana didn't make contributions to her!

    ***Most match wins at AO - By winning the 2nd rd. match 2 days ago, Fed became the player with most AO wins. For ease of reference, here are the leaders in all 4 majors.

    Tournament Player W-L
    Australian Open Roger Federer 70-10
    Roland Garros Rafael Nadal 59-1
    Wimbledon Jimmy Connors 84-18
    US Open Jimmy Connors 98-17
    ---

    I was initially surprised Roger didn't have the most wins at Wimbledon and USO but then I remembered that Connors played 200 years and basically put those out of reach. - I wonder if No1e's 25 consecutive wins at AO is a record too.
    ---

    It is. At least in the Open Era. - What I mentioned has nothing to do with Connors playing 200 years. The fact is Roger has more match wins in AO than in Wimbledon or USO. Here, I am only talking about Roger's # of matches won in different slams.***

    Even though Federer has twice the majors of Connors, longevity is still on Connors' side and no one can take that away from him! There are some records of his, just like w/ Navratilova that will never be surpassed just b/c they played for well over 20 years, almost never missing major events; esp. Wimbledon & USO!

    ***98 wins at USO is just absurd. That's the # of wins someone would have if they played "only" 14 USO's and just happened to win every single one of them. That is incredibly impressive.
    ---

    Nole didn't play against anyone who would expose any of his weaknesses and he was also good enough to abuse those guys shortcomings esp. b/c he knows them very well. However, to win the Slam and that means to beat the best opponents, he needs to show much more than he did in the first 4 rds. Other than service, he didn't bring any weapons to beat Fedal with. - Well I haven't seen all of his matches, but he has looked fine to me. IMO it's the mental issues/up and down play that has cost him at majors the past 2 years. He seems to be pretty steady so far and definitely the fave to win this title.***

    From just a glance, I too can't understand what these people are talking about? You play down to the level of your opponent at times! When pushed, I'm sure Nole will crank it up; esp. against either Berdych or Wawrinka! They ought to be more worried about the top of the draw where the real fights will be; hopefully!

    ***This is more how I see it too. He has played as good as he needed to.
    ---

    Missed all the tennis since Weds, but I'm glad I'm back in time to watch this. ...Only thing that I'm worried might happen is Stan's leg goes dead again. He had recurring issues in his biggest contests at the slams last year and was in contention in both matches til fitness became the decider. I think Novak will take it in 4.***

    Excuse me, but you're trying to say Stan would have won those 2 major matches vs Nole if he hadn't had leg trouble? Didn't he take out Murray a couple days before at the USO? Was it ok then with all those screaming winners he was hitting?

    ***Not at all, but I'm saying he would've had a better shot for sure if he didn't go lame. You could see towards the end of the match against Novak his movement was compromised and it definitely somewhat abruptedly ended both matches.***

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  93. ***I'm not singling you out, but why is destroying innocent lives always being turned into a party thing? It's a US Gov't thing that any human with a brain and a heart should be opposed to. Fuck the Dem label, fuck the Republican label, fuck the left "the right." There is no reason to be involved in policing countries. The War on Terror is a fucking joke.***

    B/c Republicans are more culpable! The wars in other countries, the war on drugs, etc. do ruin people's lives! Dems are more benign using the term like in a "war on poverty!" That isn't ruining lives, but helping the masses! There's a difference, regardless if you want to admit it or not! I'm not saying the Dems are saints, but they don't go out of their way to HURT people like Republicans! It's "the right" that hate and want to discontinue programs like Social Security, Medicare, the ACA, food stamps, tuition loan guarantees, etc.! If you can't recognize the difference, I feel sorry for you!

    ***After reading your post, I find it very amusing that you think Americans are arrogant. Then again, maybe you're just an ass.***

    Well I'm from the States and I'll say we think very highly of ourselves! There are tons of positives, but we aren't half as great as we think, esp. intellectually or morally! We're selfish, greedy, and ego driven w/o real cause! We're falling down the ladder in accomplishments, not really being as much a leader in the world! Science, math, and more has us at the bottom of the scale and we don't seem to care! We should be doing so much more, but too self-involved it seems to me! If we were that high and mighty, we wouldn't allow this past 10 years of recession and recovery after going through the same thing in the late 80's and early 90's! We were on our way with everyone prospering, but decided we couldn't live with that; allowing big business and government to run things right back into the ground! I could go on, but it'll just tick me off more than anything!

    ***Oh, hey, I'm in total aggreement that we Americans tend to be very arrogant. I just found it funny that the OP basically thumbed his nose at all Americans and while calling them arrogant.
    ---

    Anyone still talking about Benghazi today needs to have their head examined and the microphone removed from their access.***

    Well Fox News would have to completely shutdown! lol! They start and end with Benghazi no matter what the topic; can't help themselves! I was watching over the weekend and they're still talking about Rice and her sunday morning talk show rounds from over a year ago! After all the investigations, hearings, and talk show supposition, they still have "nothing!" It's embarrassing to see grown adults act like this and still have supporters!

    ***And you guys are still talking about GWB...and that was even longer ago. What a hypocrite.
    ---

    If you're going to bitch about Benghazi and Obama, it's more than appropriate to discuss GWB and 9/11! September 11, 2001 was the worst event that has ever occurred in this country and to hear right-wingers talk about Benghazi day and night, you would think that event superseded Pearl Harbor, the Vietnam war, and 9/11/01 put together!***

    Here, here! At least you know where I'm coming from rather than the "right" who can only see one position; to hurt Obama and to trash his admin.! "W" had a lot more criminal acts going on including putting Val Plame in danger revealing her CIA ties, undermining her husband just b/c he didn't report back to them what they wanted to hear, and of course keeping staff members from showing culpability! Scooter the only one half-way punished, but that didn't stop Cheney from demanding a pardon! Such hypocrisy all around! Thanks!

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  94. ***Serena to play IW's - The interviewer asked for Elena's opinion on who will win the match btw Serena and Venus from 10+ yrs ago. Her answer: "How can I say? It is a family decision." You would tend to think a fellow pro tennis player would know better to make this kind of remark.***

    I definitely felt that way; esp. before '03! Richard said Serena would be more successful, but early on it appeared Venus was "allowed" to win or take matches; defaults, lackluster play by Serena! After '02, it appeared Serena gave no quarter and annihilated her older sister at will! Some might call it silly, but I think it was an accurate assumption by other leading players! They were just too gutless to say it out loud! Besides an appearance fee, I think she's hitting IW to recover points lost by going down in flames at AO! She may not need it, but she wants to pad that career win total! She'll never come close to Martina (167), Chris (157), or Steffi's (107), but she wants to at least get close! She's gotten herself up to #4, but she waited to late to get serious, so Graf's #s are safe!

    ***Well, Serena has TONS of pts to defend this yr so she'll need to do very well everywhere to maintain her ranking. The fact that she hasn't played IW for yrs gives the potential for lots of points so she'll take all she can get imo. Wks at #1 is probably another thing she's playing for at this stage of her career.***

    Wks at #1 is something she's woefully behind since she's played part-time for so many of her best yrs! Even Hingis took it more seriously and Serena probably wants to at least eclipse her before retiring! She has a chance at Evert, but forget about Martina and Steffi's stranglehold at the top!

    ***Yup. They all add to the legacy, so she may want to cushion her lead as much as possible to stay there while she can and IW's a good opportunity for points.
    ---

    I don't know if Li Na "had" to get a cakewalk draw to get through, but she came through the draw she had. Everyone can only beat the players in front of them.***

    Some here must really be new to tennis! This sort of thing should happen more often! All you have to do is look at the recordbooks; esp. with a top player winning a major with 'some' nobody in the final! Off the top of my head, Sampras got more than a few easy major finals playing Phillippousis & Pioline! McEnroe took the '83 Wimb. against Chris Lewis of NZ! Evert got 1 of her 3 Wimbs due to Mandlikova playing out of her mind to take Martina out in '81 semi, then forgotting how to play the next day! At '77 & '78 USO, Evert won over 2 nobodies at the time called Wendy Turnbill and Shriver respectively, but no one's going back to see who she played to take those finals! Injuries weren't involved with either Cib. or Na making this final; talking out top WTA ranked players along the way! They earned it and it's more than a little offensive with some try to undermine their accomplishments!

    ***Everyone's panties get a bit in a twist at the Slams. High stakes are being played for and bragging rights are up for grabs.***

    What bothers me the most is when a top player is upset, then the person forgets how to play later; esp. in the final! Nothing ticked me off more than Federer squashing Nole's winning streak in '11 at the FO, then meekly going out in the final against Rafa; as usual! Same with Berdych beating Fed at Wimbledon in '10; again going out as if he was some kind of novice against Nadal! Going back in time, an actor and part time player by the name of Vincent Van Patten was "in the zone" and beat all comers incl. McEnroe at the Seiko Champ. in Japan in the late 70's, eventually losing to Borg in the final! That one I could deal with since McEnroe was no fave of mines!

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  95. ***It was bad luck for Rafa that his back bothered him today. It was also bad luck for him that Stan played as well as he did. I'm not sure what else there is to say?***

    Again I wake up to Rafa losing a match "only due to injury;" or so people will say! No other top player nauseates me more for this very reason! No one can win unless Rafa isn't feeling well and at his best! Does his opponent get the same consideration? NO! Most would say, "you were going to lose anyway!" Wawrinka was playing out of his mind "from the jump!" Why couldn't he have won anyway? "Bravo Stanley; you backed up that great win of Nole and took this title!" This should happen more often!

    ***Are you really so vile that you drop straight into hilarity when you read that a player might have been injured?***

    There you go assuming a lot! I just don't like it when the only thing we will hear now is Rafa only lost b/c he's injured! There's no jocularity involved, just satisfaction someone outside the top 4 won a major; PERIOD! Get over yourself; you and the rest of the Rafa sycophants!

    ***Fiero425, I'll be the 1st to admit I've seen my share of MTOs by Nadal when there looked to be nothing wrong and even thought maybe it was tactical today to break Stan's rhythm, but seriously, today he clearly was not ok after 2-0 2nd set. Up til then he was fine.***

    Cool! At least we know where we stand unlike some others that will be assuming I enjoyed him breaking down! The fact is, I've been saying for years this was inevitable with the way he plays! It's much too physical a game of attrition, and his body had to break down sooner or later! Just happening a lot sooner than most thought!

    ***IMO, this is the best thing that has happened to tennis since Federer won his 1st GS title. The Big 4 dominance is boring. That's why I wasn't particularly excited about Murray's title in the '12 USO; was a new GS champ, but had been winning Masters for years.
    ---

    It was about time to get a GS champ outside the Big 4; the last one was DelPo at the '09 USO. It's great that the champ is an offensive player and that he has the 1HBH that's getting rare.***

    Here, here! It's about time! Thanks!

    ***...Rafa couldn't move after the 2nd game of the 2nd set. You think that might have affected his chances for good - or ill?***

    Cry me a river! Edberg could barely get out of bed to play Lendl in 1990! The record will not say Lendl won AO only b/c Edberg got hurt the night before! He retired without whimpering!

    ***Rafa is a great player, no doubt one of the greats, and I give him full credit when he wins like he did against Fedr in the SF where he played incredibly to beat him handily. But seriously, the only trouble I have with what Rafa said in his interview was that he was "injured before the match started;" in the warm up no less.

    That is a low blow to his friend Stan. By saying that, he contradicts his other verbal credits, w/ the implication that the injury held him back from playing better the whole match and takes even more away from Stan's performance than he already did by suffering injury requiring attention well into the match. There was no hint of an injury until that 2nd game of the 2nd set, visually, statistically, or otherwise. If there was some niggle, it didn't affect his play, so why mention it?***

    Here, here! Stan also had to mute his exaltation in winning AO in respect for Nadal! When is Nadal respectful of someone he defeated? Never!! You won't see it! He'll be falling on the court, jumping up and down, and fist-pumping if the roles were reversed! Such a hypocrite; along with his fans!

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  96. ***"The battle for supremacy in men’s tennis has never been more fascinating. Over the past 3 years. Four players–Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, and Federer have staked a claim to being the game’s best player." They didn't think that out too carefully did they? Only 2 of those could possibly claim that.***

    The big 4 was very much exaggerated until recently! They were more dominant in Masters tourneys overall! You've had them winning with players like Berdych, Ferrer, & Soderling as opponents though at the SLAMs! Now beside DelPo, we can add Wawrinka to the short list; thank GAWD! It was getting so old and boring with the same players in final after final! Todays players are so much better than in the past, but mentally something's holding them back; hense the resurgence of more mature, accomplished players like Haas! Unfortunately it won't last due to the speed of the game! Haas and Federer will be out sooner than later, no matter how many times they change their equipment!

    ***I am strongly agains MTOs for cramping. B/c cramping is lack of preparation and conditioning. I don't believe you should be given time to get a full body massage and fluids to remedy it.***

    They felt the rule governing cramps had to be changed! There were instances of someone laying on a hot court suffering while no one could touch them! It was obscene in so many ways! The last one I saw was Caroline Woz, but I remember Connors against Manuel Orantes back in to 70's allowing him to writhe on the ground and no one was allowed to do anything! Connors even asked if they could do something for the guy! The ref just shook his head "no!" We treated animals better back then so that one I can understand the change! The others having to do with lack of conditioning like you said is part of the game! I don't even think you should get 3 min.! It should be like "I can't go on folks; sorry! Maybe my opponent can hit a few with a ball boy!"
    ---

    - http://fiero4251.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/martina-navrat…-1st-swan-song/ -

    Back in '91, Martina Navratilova was getting a little up there at 37! She had had a devastating loss at Wimbledon to Jennifer Capriati in the quarters (4-6, 5-7)! She came back, played World Team Tennis, had her ranking fall to #5 and was only seeded 6th at the US Open! It was a little scary how shaky she appeared on court; more like a club player! She got better and better through the tournament, beating M. Meleeva, A. Sanchez-Vicario, and Steffi Graf; all in 3 sets with tie-breakers to boot before eventually pooping out in the final to Monica Seles! Martina managed to push Seles to 4 sets at Tour Chp. By '94 she was going out in early rounds with her last major run occurring at home on Wimbledon grass; making it to the final and helped by Lori McNeil upsetting Steffi Graf in the 1st round! Martina retired the 1st time after going down to Conchita Martinez in 3 sets: (4-6, 6-3, 3-6)

    '91 USO Rd. - - - - Opponent - - - - Score

    3rd - - - - - - - - - Pam Shriver - - - (7-5, 6-1)

    4th - - - - - - - - - Maleeva-Fr.- - - (7-6, 1-6, 6-2)

    Qtr - - - - - - - - -Sanchez-Vic - - - (6-7, 7-6, 6-2)

    Semi - - - - - - - - Steffi Graf - - - (7-6, 6-7, 6-4)

    Final - - - - - - - Monica Seles - - - (6-7, 1-6) - - - loss

    -----
    -----

    WTA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1991

    1st - - - - - - - - Lori McNeil - - - -- (6-4, 6-1)

    Qtr - - - - - - - Sanchez-Vic. - - - (1-6, 6-4, -6-2)

    Semi - - - - - - - Jana Novotna - - - (6-4, 6-1)

    Final - - - - - - Monica Seles - - - (4-6,6-3, 5–7, 0-6) - - loss

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  97. ***Novak's gonna be praying Stan doesn't end up playing him at RG.***

    That's assuming a lot; needing to make the semi since he's currently #3 and probably won't fall past #4 by French Open! Nole's lost one match to him! I hardly think he's going to fret playing Stan when he's won the majority of their matches; hard fought, but still went to Djokovic! In any match these days, people look at how Nole played and how much he controlled the action! These days, it really is on him more than any other player right now! Since taking on Becker, I'll give Nole that one loss and not worry about meeting up with Stan again; IW, Miami, or any other event for that matter!

    ***It's gonna be interesting anyway. A best of 3 victory over top ranked players prior to RG would perk Stan up even more and then he could be very dangerous.
    ---

    Wawrinka certainly does NOT like a high bouncing balls. He doesn't take the ball particularly early and prefers something at waist length (give or take), which is right in his comfort zone. There's a reason the H2H was as bad as it was before the AO. One match is not suddenly going to change everything.***

    Who does? Obviously the best at handling it is Nole, but he didn't get there! That's what happens when you have a really long winning streak; more pressure to keep it up! This was a great result; new blood in the winner's circle! The only thing that bothered me was the muted celebration! If the roles had been reversed, Nadal would have been falling out on the court, pumping his arms, jumping up and down, and gesticulating all over the place! It kills me when someone's supposed to respect him by keeping it all bottled up! We all know better about Rafa who wouldn't be as sympathetic!

    ***Slams that got away - I think '09 USO is the big one for Roger. W/o a really bad drop shot, he probably goes up 2 sets and that's all she wrote. Even after DP tied it up at 1 set each, Roger had plenty of chances throughout the rest of the match.

    That would have been monumental: Roger would be the only one to win 6 consecutive at a GS, he would have been the sole king of the USO with 6 titles, and most importantly if the AO 2010 had played out the same way he would have had a Roger slam if he had beat DP.***

    No one more close than Andy Roddick that last Wimbledon final against Roger in '09! He was up a set and in a tie-breaker in the 2nd set with lead of 6-2; gave it all back, lost the set and allowed new life to Roger! He still had a chance going all the way to 16-14 in the 5th set losing his serve for the 1st time all set at 14-15!

    ***Any year you win a slam is a great year. Nole had a great year in '11. Sure, it could have been even better, but like I've said before, people expect way too much and it stems from the ridiculous figures Nadal and Federer have put up over the last decade... and of course Nole's stellar year. It's unreasonable to expect a player to win 2 or 3 majors every year. Fans have been spoiled. My prediction is Nole will win another slam this year.***

    We were truly spoiled by 2011 and shouldn't expect that much out of Nole again! I have to agree about those slam losses; even the smaller events! That was a big gap of no wins last year between Monte Carlo and the fall Master events! :-)

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  98. ***Condolences to the Serbian team that fought hard, but was left w/o a top player when Djokovic pulled out b/c he was "mentally and physically exhausted." Switzerland will move on to play Kazakhstan or Belgium w/ the former leading the tie 2-1. I personally think Djokovic may have still been ticked off at his treatment in last year's DC final where they had him contained in the anti-doping testing room for 5 hrs during the doubles match and couldn't be there to support the team, but who knows?***

    Seems like any top player and anyone playing for the USA play when they feel like it! I'm always astonished when someone declines to play for their country; we're talking about a sport, not hard labor drilling for coal! I didn't watch our DC, but was still shocked to hear we lost both ties! There's been a reason GB hasn't gone anywhere in decades; both men & ladies! Even using mercenaries they've lagged behind the rest of the world until now! To lose like we did is enough to wash my hands of them! What kind of "B" team is this; YOUNG? OMG, talk about a last resort! What happened to men's tennis in this country? Maybe we need more college dropouts like Connors and McEnroe! The so called creme of the crop should have been plowed under and used for compost instead of embarrassing themselves on "home ice!"

    ***Roger played the 1st rd in '04, then he never played in 1st rd til '12. In '12 they lost to USA in 1st rd. Roger did not play in '13 at all.***

    This country used to be able to get away with that sort of thing since we had a wealth of talent, but those days are long gone! We could send a "B" team and not worry about beating Chile or Belgium, now our best can't beat some kid I never heard of from GB! That is shocking in so many ways!

    ***Federer has been 2 points away from 2 majors hasn't he? Wimbledon '08 & also USO '09 (4th set TB).***

    It happens! The match that devastated me the most, even though I wasn't on the court has to be '76 USO men's final at Forest Hills! The reason this tournament is a joke is due to this schitzophrenic period; grass to clay, best of 3 in early rounds, etc.! Borg was lucky to even make the final being down a break in the 3rd to Jaime Fillol of Chile in the 2nd rd! Then he went 5 sets against Gottfried and Orantes just to make semi against old man Ilie Nastase! I thought this was probably Borg's best chance to win this title up a couple set points in TB of the 3rd, (6-4 losing it 9-11)! He was done; down 2 sets to 1 and allowed Connors to steamroll him to take title in 4! It wasn't exactly match point in the 3rd, but there was history that would give Borg the edge if he had taken that TB! Not sure he was ever closer even going 5 w/ McEnroe in '80! He was behind 0-2 before staging his comeback! Only Lendl more disappointed by not getting one of those Wimbledons he was so close to winning back in the 80's!

    ***When was Lendl close to winning wimbledon? He never stood a chance in either of his finals?***

    How many have made the finals; or even a semi for that matter? Only a handful of players have owned this title! There's only been a very select few outside of the odd upset like Krajicek, Agassi, & Hewitt who own that crown! Lendl aquitted himself very well for someone w/o natural instincts of grasscourt play who worked the hardest to make 4 semi's and 2 finals! He pretty much only lost to champion or past winners! I feel for him b/c he did everything he possibly could outside of a mind-meld with Tony Roche trying to win just 1 Wimbledon! Many never got as close as Lendl with slick, choppy grass, and the best serve and volleyers of that era; McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Stich, Rafter, Mayotte, Curren, & Cash!

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  99. ***The Real Party of "NO"? "Senate Budget Committee Chairwoman Patty Murray (D-Wash.) warned Reps. Friday not to seek concessions in exchange for raising the nation’s debt ceiling." Murray, fresh off negotiating a two-year budget deal with her House counterpart Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), said Dems will not negotiate over raising the debt ceiling.
    ---

    They sure as Hell had a different attitude about the US not paying it's bills under a Rep. President, the dam hypocrites.***

    When did any of that happen? You had Obama as a 1st term Senator voting against a hike in the debt ceiling, but it was all symbolic, knowing it would go through without a doubt! What about "W" and being a responsible, compassionate conservative? That was totally BS, doubling the nat'l debt, starting 2 wars, and not paying for some of his successful programs like "no child left behind," food stamp expansion, and "prescription drug" bills! There's the hypocrisy! Where was the whining then about spending or lack of paying bills? Most of you were hiding under rocks probably; totally embarrassed by this loser! His true legacy isn't 9/11 or any of the other stuff I mentioned, but being so bad a representative of the country and world, he personally elected Obama! "Thanks dude!"

    ***AZ deserves a boycott for their illegal use of alcohol roadblocks in order to do illegal immigration checks. They don't do these everywhere, but just in poor neighborhoods, which is discriminatory.***

    That's the American way; mistreat ones who don't contribute to campaigns! Now they're trying to take the vote from these same people with draconian restrictions with excuses of voter fraud; total BS of course! Even the Supreme Court has had to smack down some of these Republican House acts!

    ***B/c the Dem. party has to resort to lies, fearmongering, slander, divisiveness, corruptness, crony capitalism, using the gov't as a tool to go after it's enemies...they support legislation that would make a crocodile look like a more caring mother than a human!
    ---

    Funny, I never knew Richard M. Nixon was a Democrat! You learn something new everyday!***

    Hypocrisy and deflection is the American way; esp. with conservatives who have nothing positive or uplifting to say and do! They admitted what they were going to do with Obama and his admin. from day 1 so I'm not surprised by anything they say! The hierarchy of the Republican party and conservative "think tanks" are no better than the riff-raff that are too dumb to see they're voting against their own interests every cycle! They will do anything, trying to wipe Obama and his Presidency from the record books! Unfortunately for them, Obamacare, also known as the "Affordable Care Act" will have the same effect as any great society program like Social Security and Medicare and they can't stand it! It can not be undercut by rhetoric alone and these meaningless bills trying to overturn it is embarrassing for all concerned; at least 42+ times! Stupid!

    ***...coming from the dude who suggested Sarah Palin be shot.***

    Very pathetic defense of your hero who to this day says stupid stuff like "The President pals around with known terrorist!" Giving Obama the "benefit of the doubt" concerning his birth is another winner for the losers on the "right!" I'm so embarrassed for you people! Some Fox "talking head" actually tried to make an issue of Hillary not driving since '96! That makes a "First Lady" and past Senator of NY "detached from society?" These morons really are scratchin'! It's so sad to see a once proud party look so decrepit and ridiculous!

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  100. ***...being down 2 sets to 1 in RG '09 came before the USO win for DelPo, so it's clear he was on the rise before the USO that year, but the AO '09 match with Fed was embarrassing for him (Fed won 6-3, 6-0, 6-0). This recent setback with his wrist is unfortunate as he was on his way back.
    ---

    Unfortunately, even if his wrists were both 100%, I feel maybe he's lost the confidence to hit full force now as he's worried about really damaging the right one again. Of course, it's the left one giving trouble now and that means he'll be slicing more and more like he was last year and unable to go for the DTL BH; a shot he really needs to stand a good chance of beating the top guys. Poor Juan.***

    I would have thought his doctor would have told Delpo he needed to recreate or develop a different way of hitting that "slappy" forehand! He should have at least cut back on trying to knock off winners from well behind the baseline! I'm surprised more injuries aren't being registered on the tour! The game went through ways of slowing it down only to have the top players pumping up and whipping through shots to keep the speed and power at the highest levels! All the more reason I think most of these guys won't make it to 30 playing top flight tennis!

    ***Hitting as hard as he does, or rather used to, is definitely going to mean even if he hangs around til 30, he likely won't be a force w/ so much wear and tear. Plus he's already a poor mover. A poor mover banged up even more in 5 years time won't be winning much I reckon. Hard to believe he's only 25; looks way older.
    ---

    I'm good with Davis Cup, except I wish it was held every other year. - I'm ok w/ it as is. I'm ok w/ it being held every other year too, but I'm against format changes that often gets floated about. The idea of 'all players assemble' at 1 place and get the entire DC over within a week instead of spreading it around the whole year.***

    Nothing new about it; format already in existance with the yearly "Nation's Cup!" The players complain about a long season, often excusing themselves from early rounds due to exhaustion; good idea really! It would make it more special if held every 2 years as well! "The Ryder Cup" in golf already employs that schedule!

    ***Pete was my favorite player, then Roger came along and became my most fave player.***

    Ditto! Before Fed, we were all ready to anoint Sampras as "The GOAT!" He had been the most impressive in the Open era since Laver and we forgave his lack of FO titles! He more than compensated w/ multiple Wimbledons and USO's, but it was really wrong since Roger's come along and eclipsed Pete by so much! Even Rafa has a good chance to shoot past him in total majors; even if not as impressive! Roger's acquired just about every meaningful record; like Navratilova and Graf on the ladies side!

    ***Fiero, totally agree with you. - Some countries would be absolutely thrilled to have an "occasional" Cash, Rafter, or Hewitt coming into their own. USA is among them surely. They got excited for Donald Young or Ryan Harrison.***

    I can't imagine why? Neither have a real weapon against the top ranked players! You have to be able to upset someone to make it anywhere near the top and neither of these guys have it! Querry and Isner at least can serve from "on high!" These other guys would be no more intimidating than a Washington, Martin, or Mayotte! Am I dating myself a little? lol!

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